advice

After his daughter Henley is stillborn, dad Scott tells us of things that he doesn’t like people to say to him about his daughter and tells of how much he appreciates it when people say her name and acknowledge that she was a person.

Disclosure: Some of the links within these show notes are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, we will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you, our wonderful listener!

In the Advice podcast episode, dad Scott talks his life after losing his daughter Henley to stillbirth:

• Time Stamp 1:58: Finding a support group was especially helpful and it doesn’t need to be a grief support group even
• Time Stamp 8:57: What you shouldn’t say to a loss parent
• Time Stamp 9:57: What you can say instead

• Listen to Scott’s birth story of Henley who was stillborn here in Episode 31.
• Listen to Scott’s wife, Meghan’s birth story of Henley here in Episode 29.
• Listen to Scott’s wife, Meghan’s advice of dealing with grief after Henley’s stillbirth here in Episode 30.

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Full Transcript

Lee 0:10
This is Still A Part of Us, a podcast where moms and dads share the story of their child who was stillborn or who died in infancy. I’m Lee Redd, and on this episode of Advice and Encouragement from a Loss Dad, I chat with Scott, whose daughter Henley was stillborn at 36 weeks.

By the way, you can hear Scott and his wife’s episodes about the birth of their child on episode 29 and 31. Today, Scott and I talked about how he has a special doll that he bought for Henley, when they first found out that they were pregnant and how that holds a special place in his heart for his daughter. We talk about strategies that we can implement in our own personal lives, on how we can talk with people who have experienced loss.

As a word of caution to our listeners, this discussion contains emotional triggers of stillbirth and infant loss. Please keep yourself emotionally and mentally healthy and seek help if needed. Hope this helps somebody out there.

And we’re back with Scott, and he’s going to be talking about his daughter. Scott, give us a little recap.

Scott 1:25
Alright. Hi, I’m Scott. My daughter’s name is Henley. With what happened everything: she was 36 weeks. My wife was 36 weeks pregnant, and she was stillborn.

Lee 1:36
And now we’re going to be talking about advice. And I personally don’t like to call it advice. It is advice. It’s, it’s stuff that has helped you, that you would like to pass on to other fathers and other parents. What has been something that you have greatly appreciated that somebody has done for you or that you would like to pass on to somebody else?

Scott 1:58
Okay, one thing that really, really helped me out was the support group I have here with friends. And they, they really, some of them have had the same situation happen, or they’ve had some type of loss with a child, but they were able to help me out with talking with them. But also just kind of staying busy for me, and helping support my wife. I really threw myself into work, which sometimes is not always the healthiest, but I do that, and then I come home, I talk with my wife, with my friends. And I found hobbies have also been very helpful. We started a Disneyland social club and go to Disney. And we had a great time doing that, and meet a lot of really fun, interesting people, same exact things that they’re into. Yeah.

Lee 2:55
And with the social club, is it open to anybody or you sort of more select or…?

Scott 3:01
It is open to everybody. Anybody that would be interested in joining, it is a lot easier to join a social club than it is to make one, we’ve learned. It’s also very expensive to make one. But yeah, it’s open to anybody. It is preferable for somebody with an annual pass, just that way they can come more than once a year to do meetups and hang out with everybody. But really there’s…anybody can join. The president or the vice president I had that was with me, I still consider her my vice president, but she moved to Florida, and now she is the president of the Disney World chapter of our social club.

But yeah, it’s it’s really easy to join. If you wanted to look into joining our group, we have a…kind of like a scavenger hunt, a Disney scavenger hunt kind of thing to do. And it’s super simple. It’s usually like take pictures in front of, of all the mountains of the park, like Space Mountain, Magic–or Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Matterhorn, Thunder Mountain. And then there’s a take pictures with certain characters, get pictures of certain scenery. And then we also do, I got this from another club, but four acts of kindness. So it could be as simple as just yousee a piece of trash and pick it up. Or you see a child who’s crying, and so you give them these little Disney pins that people buy and trade and stuff like that. Just give them a little pin just to make them happy, make their day a little better, or a way to make those parents of the child, their day a little easier. Because Disney with a little kid is usually not as fun as most people think. It’s pretty stressful, trying to make sure that they’re happy and entertained, and all that stuff. So little things.

Lee 4:44
Now, have you found with your social club with such a–I’m assuming it’s sort of a diverse group of people–are you able to share your personal like, do some of the people in your club know about Henley or is it–?

Scott 5:00
Everybody in my, everybody in my club knows, but several other social clubs–there’s hundreds of them–they know too. We all follow each other on Instagram and stuff. And we posted up. First we posted up that we were pregnant, and everybody was super happy and all that stuff like that. And then later on, we had to post what happened and to show what happened, we, my wife and I, we each had tattoos done on our arm. And we posted the pictures of our tattoos to show what happened and everything. And it’s been nothing but love. People coming up to us, hugging us, sending us messages. Some people have come up to us and they started telling us their stories, which has been fantastic. And it’s basically like there’s a larger club within all of these other clubs now, that people are more talking about now than they used to. They used to just be like, Oh, let’s all hang out. Let’s meet up. Let’s go ride this ride together. And now it’s–now people are getting to some different discussions going on.

Lee 6:02
It’s wonderful that there is that support group that you established and that has come around you.

Scott 6:08
And it’s also, it’s also fun because of Disney I mean.

Lee 6:11
Yeah. The happiest place on earth. Is that their…?

Scott 6:17
Supposed to be the the happiest place on earth, yes.

Lee 6:19
Supposed to be. That’s a good point.

Scott 6:21
Yeah, like I said, there’s some kids that not-so-happy, going around there.

Lee 6:25
Our five-year old, it’s not, at naptime, it’s not happiest time or the happiest place…

Scott 6:30
That or you didn’t buy them a lollipop they wanted or the churro…

Lee 6:34
Just never tell your kid that it’s an option. “Hey, where did those kids get those?” “I don’t know. I don’t know. Let’s go.”

Scott 6:42
“Maybe Mickey Mouse saw them and it was just a prize. They picked up a bunch of trash. Maybe you should try that.”

Lee 6:46
Oh hey, that’s a good way to get it. Was there any other advice that you’d like to…?

Scott 6:52
My main advice that I know my wife also touched on too, is doctors don’t tell everybody to look out for increased and erratic movement. I mean, if that’s something that we would have known, we could have had a completely different outlook. If we would have known that Henley’s kicking and tossing the night before could have been a sign of distress, and we could have gone to the hospital. Itt could have a different outcome. And doctors just don’t say that. They always tell people, Hey, do your kick counts. Make sure that…it’s not decrease movement. They just don’t tell you. So and if anybody listening, and that helps just one person, one family, I mean that’s, that’s really what matters, at least in my eyes.

Lee 7:39
Yeah, it was it’s–I’m not a medical person. And Scott, I’m pretty sure–we’ve been talking about what you do and–but it is one of those like, we didn’t know a lot of what was going on, as well. And I don’t blame any of our medical personnel, but it’s one of those situations where sometimes knowledge is power. And you know, like you said, if it helps one person, that’s a good thing, so…

Scott 8:06
And I don’t blame any of…our doctor, any of that. I don’t blame her. She’s been fantastic. We actually trying again, and we’re gonna stick with her and she was great. And the fact that she had so much emotion when everything happened, showed how much she actually cared. We weren’t just a number on a chart, that she was trying to push through. She actually took extra time with us every visit. And so, so I don’t blame her for any of that. It’s just, it’s not common practice for doctors to say, Hey, keep an eye out for this. And I truly believe it needs to become more commonplace for them to say, Yeah, look out for decrease, but you need to also look out for unusual and erratic movement that is outside of the norm that you have noticed over the last so many months.

Lee 8:57
Is there anything that people should not do? Not to point anybody out, but is there, there–? We talked about some good. If you want to bring up anything that you’re like, yeah, don’t, you know, come on people, let’s get over to this practice? If there’s not, you know, don’t feel bad, but…

Scott 9:15
No, I…yeah, there is some. The only two terms that I don’t usually use this word often, but I hate, I hate these two terms is, “it was God’s plan” or “it was all in the name of God” or something like that. Like those ones drive me nuts. And I’m, I’m okay with like, “Oh, we’re praying for you” and “You have us in your thoughts.” I appreciate all of that. It’s just those two, because I’m like, What is his plan that needed to take my child for me? That that makes no sense. And that’s pretty much it. Those are the only things that I think nobody should ever say.

Lee 9:55
It’s not a comforting thing to hear.

Scott 9:57
No, not at all. Like, Oh, you’re nn our prayers. Oh, we’re thinking about you. I think of Henley all the time. And use her name. That’s the other thing too that Meghan and I have noticed: people are like, Oh, the baby. Oh your baby. Like she had a name. She was a person. Like yeah, I mean in some states, they might look at it as, oh yeah you didn’t have a child. But we did. And her name is Henley. So I much prefer it when people actually use her name, especially with friends and everything. And they’re starting to catch on to that too. Because they bring it up. We start talking and we’ll use her name, and so then they start using it. And it actually makes me happy hearing other people say her name.

Lee 10:42
And as a parent as, you know, my son is my son and he will always be part of me. And I love, I love it when people do use, you know, in your situation when they do talk about Henley. And in my situation, I love it when people are like, you know. You know, we have, we live pretty close to the cemetery where we buried Brannan, and we’ll get texts and like, Hey, we were walking through the cemetery, and we stopped by Brannan’s. It was great to see him. And it’s just like, just little things where it’s like, yeah, they’re bringing up MY child. And I’m glad, I’m glad it’s not just our thing. You know I’m glad other people. And like you said, you like that your friends and people are using Henley’s name. We as parents of loss, we love our children. And we just want people to also talk about them.

Scott 11:35
Yeah, of course always love her. And I wish I would have been able to meet Brannan and everything. That would have been great.

Lee 11:45
If you’re ever up in Utah, we’d love to take you out, I guess.

Scott 11:51
Yeah, I mean, Utah could be fun. Only place in Utah I’ve ever been is a–actually no, didn’t go to Utah. My wife wants to take me to Utah to go to the Cracker Barrel up there.

Lee 12:04
We’d take you to the Cracker Barrel! There’s a lot of stuff here in Utah. It’s pretty cool. But yeah. Was there, is there anything else you want to say or we wrap this up?

Scott 12:15
I think we’re good. I think we touched on everything.

Lee 12:19
Well, wonderful. Scott, thank you so much. It was wonderful to talk to you about your daughter Henley.

Scott 12:24
Thank you so much.

Lee 12:25
Thanks for opening up and sharing this tender part of your life with us all.

Scott 12:30
Thank you. It’s been great.

Lee 12:32
And you have a wonderful day.

Scott 12:34
You too, sir.

Lee 12:44
Again, I would like to thank Scott for coming on the podcast. It was wonderful to talk with him and see how he’s doing in his process of grief. It’s good to hear his story of his daughter Henley.

Head over to our website, StillAPartofUs.com. There you could find the show notes including a full transcript of this interview and any resources that were mentioned. You could sign up for a short and helpful newsletter. And there you can learn how you can become a patron and support the work it takes to produce the show for a few dollars a month. And lastly, there you can find out how to get in touch with us if you want to share your child’s story on the show.

The show was produced and edited by Winter and Lee Redd.l Thanks to Josh Woodward for letting us use his song “Vanishing Note”. You could find him at JoshWoodward.com. Subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend that might need it and tell them to subscribe. Why? Because people need to know that even though our babies are no longer with us, they are still a part of us.

If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito. The Dalai Lama

Because of her experience with her stillborn daughter Henley, mom Meghan tells of how she always warns and advises other pregnant mothers to watch for large, erratic, unusual movements from their baby, which may be a sign of distress. She also encourages other loss parents to do what is best for them when it comes to the time they spend with their baby after birth.

Disclosure: Some of the links within these show notes are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, we will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you, our wonderful listener!

In the Advice podcast episode, mom Meghan discusses some things that helped her after Henley’s stillbirth:

• Time Stamp 3:51: What Meghan advises and warns pregnant women
• Time Stamp 6:24: Leaving behind the land of “what if”
• Time Stamp 8:12: Meghan and Scott attend grief support groups and therapy
• Time Stamp 11:42: Getting tattoos so they can talk about Henley
• Time Stamp 13:42: Best advice she has to other loss parents
• Time Stamp 15:03: What not to say–it doesn’t make anyone feel better
• Time Stamp 22:04: Meghan’s father and grandmother passed away in 2016
• Time Stamp 23:32: How Meghan works as a nanny

• Listen to Meghan’s birth story of Henley here in Episode 29.
• Listen to Meghan’s husband, Scott’s birth story of Henley who was stillborn here in Episode 31.
• Listen to Meghan’s husband, Scott’s advice after Henley was stillborn here in Episode 32.

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Full Transcript

Winter 0:11
This is Still A Part of Us, a podcast where moms and dads share the story of their child who was stillborn or who died in infancy. I’m Winter Redd and in this episode of Advice and Encouragement from a Loss Mom, I chat with Meghan, whose daughter Henley was stillborn at 36 weeks.

By the way, you can hear Meghan’s and her husband Scott’s episodes about the birth of their child on episode 29 and 31. Today, we discuss with Meghan how she makes it a point to tell Henley’s story and the warning she has for other pregnant women, how she encourages other loss parents to do what is right for them and to not let anyone else try and change anything,and how she and her husband have drawn closer to one another after losing Henley.

As a word of caution to our listeners, this discussion contains emotional triggers of stillbirth and infant loss. Please keep yourself emotionally and mentally healthy and seek help if needed. Hope this helps someone out there.

Meghan, thank you so much for being on this episode with me. I really appreciate you coming on telling Henley’s story. And it was beautiful. And I–it was so similar to ours, so it’s just like, Oh! Just heartbreaking. So I’m so sorry that has happened to you and your family. But thank you for sharing, because I feel like you–actually, I know you have something to share that I think is extremely important. You mentioned it already in the birth episode. So if you haven’t had a chance to listen to that, go back and listen to Meghan’s story. So welcome. Welcome, welcome.

Meghan 1:51
Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Winter 1:52
And for context, can you tell us about how long ago your child was born at the time of this recording?

Meghan 1:58
So she was born just under four months ago.

Winter 2:01
Just under four months ago, so and…so you’re, you’re kind of still in the very new stages, Meghan. How is the grieving process looks like for you,?

Meghan 2:12
Every day is different. I mean, the beginning was really hard. There was lots of crying. There was, you know, just lots of days but not wanting to do much. As time’s gone on, it’s, it’s getting–I wouldn’t call it easier, but I’m more able to do the normal things you got to do. You know, I went back to work and, you know, you kind of just have to move on with the day-to-day, but, you know, not necessarily do I cry every day, but there’s definitel,y at least a couple of times a week something out of the blue will strike that brings it all right back.

Winter 2:47
Yeah. Anything it feels like–

Meghan 2:49
It can be just the most random of things.

Winter 2:52
Yeah, anything.

Meghan 2:52
It doesn’t. There’s no rhyme or reason to it. And sometimes like this last trip, we went on to Disneyland, I started crying in the line for the Incredicoaster and I have no idea why. I couldn’t tell you, like you know… Scott looked at me and he’s, What making you upset? And I’m like, I don’t know!

Winter 3:09
Yeah, you’re like, I can’t tell you. It just happens. So what have you done–you mentioned before that you like to go and sit in her room sometimes and rock on her rocking chair, and maybe even sit with that little weighted Teddy bear. Other things, what are some other things that you like to do to think about her, to remember her, to celebrate Henley on a day-to-day basis?

Meghan 3:31
I mean, it’s my goal to, anyone that’s willing to listen gets told about her. And anyone that I know that is pregnant or intends to be, gets told her story. Not to scare them, but to tell them the things I wish I would have known that might have made a difference.

Winter 3:51
Yeah, because you…can you, can you tell us exactly what you tell people? I actually want you to say it again on this episode too, because I think it’s super important.

Meghan 4:00
I tell the whole story to pretty much everyone. I mean, I even have a friend currently that lives out of state, but she’s pregnant. And I didn’t know, but she knew she was pregnant when I told her I lost Henley. So she’s 22 or 23 weeks pregnant right now. So immediately, she tells me, she didn’t tell me until like two weeks ago, but when she told me my first thing was, Okay, I don’t want this to scare you. And I’m not telling you to scare you. But the doctors don’t tell you and you need to know: if your baby has–you know, you get to know their movement pattern, you get to know what their kicks feel like. If they start moving a radically a lot, crazy intensely, please go get checked out. Even if you get there, they check everything and they tell you you’re crazy, I would rather have you find out that everything was fine, than be me who didn’t know, and had I known and could have made me saved her.

Winter 4:53
Yeah. That is so, so important. That was the thing that struck me when you email to me, was your kind of emphatic plea like, I want people to know this, I need people to know this. I need women to know this, so that they can take care of their babies.

Meghan 5:08
Because I even took the time and asked my doctor–well, I didn’t ask my doctor, but I asked another doctor–why they don’t tell women this. So even though I’m not the only one that I know, that has had this and then had something happen. And basically I got told by this doctor, that if they told all women, that any kind of erratic movement could be a sign of distress, they’d have people in, getting checked every two minutes, and it’s just highly unlikely that that’s what it is. Now mind you, this wasn’t actually my doctor. This was just another doctor that I was talking to, because I don’t think my doctor would be that callous or cold. But it just makes no sense to me. I mean, so what we’re wasting the hospital’s time, a certain percentage of the time, but how many babies is it going to make a difference in?

Winter 5:54
Exactly!

Meghan 5:55
Like it’s worth it.

Winter 5:56
It totally is worth it. Ah–that, that’s frustrating.

Meghan 6:02
It really is.

Winter 6:03
It’s–that’s frustrating. So I–

Meghan 6:05
Obviously I didn’t have a reason to think anything of it. Also just had no knowledge. First pregnancy–I didn’t know. And everything had been so healthy and so fine.

Winter 6:15
Yeah, exactly. They’d been checking you out. You’d looked great. And I–yeah, it’s frustrating when you’re like, kind of takes your innocence away, right?

Meghan 6:24
Yeah, I mean, I’ve gotten to a place now where I know I can’t live in the land of “what if”. I can’t keep thinking, Well, if I had done this, maybe this would happen. Or if this had happened. I can’t, I can’t live there, because I can’t change it. So the best I can do is try and tell everyone else to hopefully prevent something bad from happening to someone else.

Winter 6:41
Yeah. I like that–not living in the land of “what if”, because that will eat you up.

Meghan 6:46
It will.

Winter 6:46
It was totally eat you up. Is there anything you guys do–and I think I know the answer to this–that you guys try and do to like physically escape and trying to basically take your mind off of it?

Meghan 6:58
We go to Disneyland!

Winter 6:59
You go to Disneyland! I was like, I know you were going to say that!

Meghan 7:01
That’s our thing–

Winter 7:02
Which I think is great.

Meghan 7:04
The first trip back after losing Henley was rough. I wasn’t even sure I wanted to go. I wasn’t sure how it would be. I didn’t know if my happy place would be ruined. It was hard. You know, seeing people with their children, thinking about all the things we thought we’d have her there for, was hard. But in the end, we did have a good time. And it was still enjoyable to us. And we’ve been back additionally, another time since then now and, you know, I made it through this last trip. I only cried one time, and I had a good time the rest of the time. So it’s still the place that we go to be happy.

Winter 7:41
Yeah, that’s– Yes, watching and seeing all the other little families with their little babies. And then kind of the, once again, the “what ifs”, like, Oh, Henley would be able to, you know, do this and do that. And yes, there’s a lot of–

Meghan 7:55
We really hope that one day that will be fulfilled with another child. Obviously, it never will be with Henley, but one day we’ll get there with a baby.

Winter 8:03
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Meghan, do you guys go to counseling or any grief support groups or anything like that?

Meghan 8:12
We’ve been to the support group that our hospital runs, the hospital delivered at. We went once. And it’s bi-monthly. So they actually have it every month, but one month, it’s on one side of town, and then one month, it’s, you know, 40 miles in the other direction. We didn’t go to the very first one because it was like, the week after I had her and I was like, I just–can’t go there yet. So we went the next month, and then they didn’t have one. They had a Memory Tree event in December, where they have people bring in ornaments for their babies and they get hung on a tree that stays in the hospital lobby all through Christmas. So we did go to that. We actually, when we were at Disneyland, picked up an ornament, had her name put on it and everything. And that hung in the hospital through the Christmas season, and they’ll put it up every subsequent year.

Winter 8:57
Oh, that’s great.

Meghan 8:57
They’ll put all the ornaments back up. And then there’s another group, the grief support group, there’s another one in the next month, so we’ll go to that one. That was pretty helpful. And then I started counseling for the first time last week, so I’ve only gone once. But I felt like I found the right counselor. I found someone who, not only specializes in this situation, but also has personally been through it.

Winter 9:22
So experienced a stillbirth herself?

Meghan 9:24
Yes. She said about two years ago.

Winter 9:26
Oh, that’s, that’s pretty recent for her too, if you think about it.

Meghan 9:30
It’s impressive to me that she’s willing to counsel others about the same thing.

Winter 9:34
Yeah. Exactly. Well, that is, that’s great. And I, we’ve–I’m a huge fan of therapy. I mean, so and especially shopping around for somebody that is a good fit. And it sounds like it’s a good fit.

Meghan 9:45
I had, I actually had tried another place first, and I just didn’t–like it was one of those like, you walk in and you’re just like not feeling it.

Winter 9:52
You’re like, Nope.

Meghan 9:52
I was going, This is not gonna work.

Winter 9:54
I already know. I don’t know what it is. Exactly.

Meghan 9:57
And so the way I came about this therapist was actually very unique. I was at storytime at the library with my friend’s daughter. I was babysitting my friend’s daughter and had brought her to storytime. And I somehow ended up in a conversation with these other moms, talking about their C-sections. And I’m just not shy. So I just interject with mine. And I mean, obviously through the course of the story, they find out that, you know, Henley was stillborn. And not–didn’t really think much of the conversation just kind of said some things. They were just kind of impressed that I was there, you know. And then we went into storytime and that was the end of that. Don’t even know these people’s names, talked to them for maybe 10 or 15 minutes. The next time I came back to the library, now mind you this library, the librarians know me, because I’m a nanny, and I’ve brought lots of kids to storytime.

Winter 10:43
You’re there, you’re there.

Meghan 10:44
They’ve seen me with a rotating group of children and so they know who I am. The librarian comes up to me and says, Oh I’ve been waiting for you to come back in, you know. This woman that you talked to the last time you were here, she left this for you. She left me a whole letter, like four pages long about her story, about things that had happened to her. She had had loss, not stillbirth, but earlier loss. And then said, You know, I don’t know if you’ve thought of this, but I’ve been going to this counseling place and they’ve helped me immensely. And they specialize this, in this and left the brochure for the Counseling Center.

Winter 11:18
That is amazing.

Meghan 11:19
So it’s just another case of were like, talking about it is worth it. You know, as much as you’ll make some people uncomfortable, there are so many people that have a story that aren’t willing to say it, until you start the conversation.

Winter 11:35
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Right. That’s, this is why we have the podcast, so we can talk about it.

Meghan 11:42
I personally, so my husband and I both got tattoos after we lost Henley, and put them in a very visible place and it’s intentional. It’s on my left forearm on the inside, so, you know, if I’m handing anybody anything, they’re going to see it. And it’s it’s intentional for people to read it and ask a question. So my tattoo says “Henley Ryan. I carried you every second of your life and I will love you for every second of mine” and it has my birth flower and hers.

Winter 12:06
Oh, that is awesome. Ah look at that!

Meghan 12:10
There you go.

Winter 12:11
Oh, that’s so cool.

Meghan 12:13
So I intentionally put it there, so that, you know–there are people that read it and just you can tell they get the like, ahhhh look on their face and and don’t say anything. But there’s a lot of people that read it and go, Oh my goodness, that’s so sweet. What happened? And I totally want you to ask what happened. That’s why I put it there. I put it there, so you’ll ask me.

Winter 12:30
Yeah. Does your husband have it in kind of a similar location?

Meghan 12:33
He’s got a tattoo on the same spot.

Winter 12:34
Oh, really? Okay.

Meghan 12:35
His tattoo says something else. Got a different quote. And his statue instead of flowers has her actual footprint.

Winter 12:40
Oh, really?

Yay. That’s awesome. That–yeah, I…those physical reminders actually are, I think, very helpful. My husband has a tattoo as well. And that’s, he has it on his forearm so people can ask him about it. And it’s been very good for him.

Meghan 12:42
Yeah.

We got him done about four weeks after we lost her. As soon as I thought my doctor–well I didn’t even ask my doctor. I was just like, What’s the worst that’s gonna happen? She’s gonna yell at me? I’m doing it! As soon as I felt up to it, I was like I’m doing.

Winter 12:57
Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. I’m curious what you would say to somebody that is experiencing a loss like this, that anything that you found comforting to you that you heard, that you would maybe want to pass on to somebody else?

Meghan 13:24
I mean, the best advice I can give is take all the pictures. Take, you know, take all the moments you can. Make sure you dress them, make sure you bring–you know if you had a specific like swaddle blanket picked out that you were like, I’m going to use this for my baby, put it on them and take a picture. Because these are the things that like you’ll regret not having them down the line. Call the professionals. Let them come take great quality photos for you. And no matter what you think anyone else is going to think about it, spend as much time as you want to with that baby. It’s totally up to you. I don’t regret my choice. I mean, I wish I would have spent a little longer with her, but I don’t regret what we did. It felt right at the time. And then there, you know, there’s other people that want to spend the full 48 hours they’ll give if they have a Cuddle Cot, and that’s fine. You do what feels right to you. Don’t let anybody else aside from you and your partner influence that decision.

Winter 14:18
Yeah. That is great advice. I have found that different people want to spend, yeah, exactly 48 hours or however long that they will let you have them. And then others were like, that was good. I need to…I need, for myself, closure. And they–

Meghan 14:33
We gave her back when we did, because she could started leaking fluid out of her nose and she just wasn’t going to look the same. And I wanted the last memories to be of her looking as good as she could. So you know, it’s a personal choice, and don’t let anybody else try and change how you feel about it.

Winter 14:54
Yeah, yes. Now Meghan, what would you NOT to somebody that’s experiencing such a loss?

Meghan 15:03
Well, we’ve had some things that people say that, I think, that no one should ever say to people.

Winter 15:09
Don’t call anybody out by name. But go ahead. I would love to hear them.

Meghan 15:12
Well, these aren’t like specific people we’re close to. This is just like, you know, in the course of people on the street. Right. No matter your religious beliefs, whether you’re religious or not–we’re not. Some people are. That doesn’t matter. Don’t ever tell someone it was God’s plan. Don’t do it. No matter how much you believe that, it’s not comforting in any way, shape, or form.

Winter 15:35
No, no, not at all. I mean…

Meghan 15:37
You can tell me that, you know, you’re praying for me. And that’s fantastic, because that means you’re thinking good things for me. Awesome. Don’t ever say that it was God’s plan. Don’t tell me everything happens for a reason.

Winter 15:48
Oh, yeah. Hate that one too.

Meghan 15:50
These are not good things to say. They’re not comforting. And if you don’t know what to say, at all, just say you’re sorry.

Winter 15:56
Yeah. That’s huge. I love when people say I’m just sorry about what happened. And I’m like, thanks.

Meghan 16:01
I’m so sorry. That’s horrible. Yep. That’s enough. If can’t think of anything else, that’s enough. You’ve said something.

Winter 16:08
Yeah. And you thought about me, so that’s good. Yeah.

Meghan 16:11
And don’t–you know, the other thing that was that I think now is hard, is don’t don’t not say anything because you don’t know what to say. Don’t just disappear, because you don’t know what to say. I know it makes you uncomfortable. It makes everyone uncomfortable. I’m going to be uncomfortable for the rest of my life.

Winter 16:29
Yeah, I’ve got this with me.

Meghan 16:30
But you’ve got to say something. Don’t just ignore the existence. Like say something! And I finally, I posted on social media a couple of days ago, I posted something telling people that I want them to ask me about her. I want them to say things. I got tired of everybody just kind of like skirting around the subject. This is what we’re doing.

Winter 16:54
So it was, it was–there was a lot of people kind of tiptoeing around?

Meghan 16:58
Oh, lots of people dancing around, not wanting to ask anything. And I’m like, just, just ask. The most comforting thing you can do, is ask me about her. She existed.

Winter 17:08
Yeah. I carried her. I gave birth to her.

Meghan 17:12
Oh, yeah. And then we’ve had, you know, in conversations with other people, you know, kind of like I said, when I jumped into that conversation at storytime, I’ve had other conversations where I’ve jumped into somebody’s conversation about pregnancy or birth. And you can tell it just makes them totally uncomfortable. I jumped into this conversation, and I want to be like, Look, just because I didn’t bring a baby home, doesn’t mean I didn’t have a baby. I went through the same thing.

Winter 17:35
Yep. Yep.

Meghan 17:37
The only difference is your C-section ended with a baby crying and mine ended with silence.

Winter 17:42
Yeah. Yep. You still gave birth.

Meghan 17:45
Yep.

Winter 17:46
You carried her.

Meghan 17:48
Yeah. And you’d be surprised how many people are totally uncomfortable with that. Or the people that are just like, I don’t want you to, you know–your story. It makes me uncomfortable, and I just I can’t talk about it. Well, then I guess you can’t talk to me like, I guess we’re done then.

Winter 18:05
Yeah, cuz you’re like, this is part of who I am now.

Meghan 18:08
This is my life. And if you’d like to be a part of my life, then this, this is part of what we have to talk about.

Winter 18:13
You know, it’s interesting. I listened to a TED talk and, and it was a woman who had experienced stillbirth. And she’s like, the one thing about stillbirth is kind of like, it’s like a fire, a slow burning fire, that it burns away all the stuff that doesn’t really matter. So sometimes those relationships and those things that really just don’t matter, kind of go away.

Meghan 18:32
You also kind of lose a lot of your filter for things. I’m real blunt with people now. You know, and, and sometimes the hardest conversations that people have, they haven’t, not meaning it for it to be an in depth, very personal conversation. You know, Oh, do you have kids? You know, just the general we’re just trying to have a chitchat. And I don’t lie. So I answer and I respond. Yes, I have a daughter, but I lost her at 36 weeks, and then they’re uncomfortable and they don’t know what to do now. Well, you asked the personal question, so you get the answer. If you didn’t want the answer, don’t ask the question. You could have just been like, you know, It’s been hot outside today.

Winter 19:14
Yeah, the weather!

Meghan 19:16
You chose to ask the question. Don’t be astounded by the answer.

Winter 19:19
It is a very personal question. People don’t realize it, but it’s a very personal question. So…

Meghan 19:24
It is, and I mean, it’s, it’s a personal choice on how you decide to answer. I refuse to say, I don’t have any kids. But honestly, there are some times where I think about it. And sometimes I will. If I’m never going to see this person again, and I passed them in the grocery store for five seconds, sometimes I’ll just be like, No, and then keep walking. Because it’s just, sometimes it’s exhausting to have to go through the whole conversation or just deal with the people that like, look at you, Ahhhh! I don’t know what to do.

Winter 19:48
Yeah. Don’t be like those people. Come on, people. So how has Scott, your spouse, handled the loss? How has that looked like for him and as a couple even?

Meghan 20:01
I mean, he’s been great for me, but he definitely is a lot more quiet about it. Like any conversation about Henley is initiated by me, not initiated by him. You know, everybody grieves differently and it’s been difficult for me to sit there and realize that just because he’s not grieving the same way I am, doesn’t mean he’s not grieving. But I think we’re closer than ever now. I mean, we have been through this and it’s probably the hardest thing we’ll ever deal with together and we’ve been together for a long time now. I mean, we started dating when we were 19. We’re 30, well I’m 32 and he’s almost 32 now. So been quite a while. Almost 13 years. So you know, it’s–every day is different and some days he does cry. Some days, he doesn’t say anything about her at all. And it’s it’s different for him than for me, because I talk about her every day, but you know, he’s never offended when I talk about her. He never doesn’t want to respond when I talk about it. I think he just doesn’t choose to initiate those conversation.

Winter 21:06
Right. And that’s fine. That’s just how he communicates. That’s what feels comfortable to him, it sounds like?

Meghan 21:12
Yeah, I’m sure his episode will be much less in depth on talking than mine. He just doesn’t talk quite as much as I do.

Winter 21:18
Most of the men’s episodes are a little bit shorter. And that’s perfectly fine. I think, kudos to you guys, though, for staying close to each other, and maybe even getting stronger in your relationship. Because these these can shatter a relationship pretty easily. These kinds of tragedies can be very difficult.

Meghan 21:23
I can see how it does.

Winter 21:36
Yeah. Because there’s so much stress and then you just like, Why aren’t you grieving like me? And it’s and it’s frustrating.

Meghan 21:41
Yeah. I mean, I think it somewhat helps that we had been through some loss together prior to this. And granted, it was my family, and not his, but we’ve been together so long that my family is basically his. You know, he was he was pretty close to my grandmother when she passed away and when my dad passed away, he was actually the one that found my father. So we’ve been through quite a bit together.

Winter 22:04
You have. So you, so mentioning these previous kind of deaths that you guys have experienced, did you think that was kind of a little preparatory? Or did you–? I’m just curious, like how you feel about having those experiences before Henley?

Meghan 22:20
Well, so we thought that 2016, the year that both those people passed away, was going to be the worst year ever, right? You get out of that and you go, Okay, this is as bad as it can get. Can’t get any worse than this. Well, I don’t think that way anymore. Because 2019 was worse than that. But I think that I was able to handle the loss of Henley a little more gracefully after having been through what I already have. I kind of already knew how my body was going to deal with grief, how my brain handled it, and you know, was able to deal with things a little better. I mean, I wouldn’t say you know, what really prepares you, but at least I had some background and experience on losing someone. Well, this is so much more intense than that. Even though that was my father and my grandmother. It’s still, this is more intense. This is somebody that didn’t ever really get to live at all.

Winter 23:10
Yeah. didn’t get a chance to–yeah. The death of dreams, is what they call it is. And I’m like, yep, that’s exactly what it feels like. I know it’s been short, a short four months, right?

Meghan 23:23
Yeah.

Winter 23:24
Have you had any realizations or “aha” moments about how you grieve or just about the entire process that you’re going through right now?

Meghan 23:32
Well, I’ve had people tell me that I’m kind of crazy, because like I said, I am a nanny. I wasn’t working when I…while I was working at the beginning of my pregnancy and ended up losing my job, because the family I was working for the mother got laid off from her job, and they couldn’t afford to keep me.

Winter 23:48
Oh, gotcha. Okay.

Meghan 23:49
So then I tried to find a job for a while, and finding a job as a nanny while you’re pregnant is just kind of next to impossible.

Winter 23:57
That’s rough, I’m sure.

Meghan 23:58
So I watched my little cousin for the summer while they were out of school. They’re, they’re twins. They’re nine-years old. So I watched them the whole summer while they were out of school, and it kind of gave me something to do in the meantime. And by the end of summer, I was really pregnant. So I was like, I give up. I’m not gonna try and find a job until after I have her. It’s fine, right? Like, so from the end of August until what was supposed to be the end of October, I was like, I’m just not gonna work. I ended up finding a job–well, I found the job the end of December, but I actually started this job about two-and-a-half weeks ago now.

Winter 24:29
Okaaay…

Meghan 24:30
And everybody thinks I’m crazy, because the child I’m watching now is two-and-a-half months old. And she’s a little girl. So, essentially, for all intents and purposes, I was due October 29 with Henley. This little girl was born on November 9th, so it’s exactly the same is what it should have been. Which some days is tougher than others. To look at her know, well, this is what she should have been doing. This is about how big she should have been. But for me, it would have been weird to find a job doing anything else, because I had a moment where I thought about not going back to nannying. And I’ve spent the last like, almost eight years of my life helping raise other people’s children. So I couldn’t fathom going and doing something else. And as hard as it as some days to be with her, it’s also healing in other ways to be with a baby, you know, for three days a week. Though, it’s not my baby, I get to be helping care for someone’s baby. So that that desire and that, you know, need to fill your arms is at least getting catered to in some way.

Winter 25:41
Yeah.

Meghan 25:43
I’m getting to do something with it. Yeah.

Winter 25:46
Oh, so hard, though. But that sounds like a little bit of a calling for you. It feels right, I guess.

Meghan 25:53
It feels right. And I think, you know, after what has happened to me, I’m probably the most attentive nanny to a baby that’s ever existed now. The intense anxiety and fear about something happening to a child is real. And I’m probably 10 times more attentive than anybody else would be. It took me a while to find a job, because when I was looking for work, I refuse to hide anything. So I refused to hide what had happened with Henley, and I was open about it. And I also refused to hide the fact that we do intend to try and have another child. I didn’t want to get into a position where I got hired for a job, and then got pregnant and somebody go, Oh, we can’t deal with that. So I was honest. And it took me a while to find a family to work for, but the family that hired me is very understanding. This is their first child. And they’re totally okay with the whole situation. They’re totally okay if I do end up pregnant. Like they’re fine with it.

Winter 26:55
That’s great.

Meghan 26:55
And the job schedule, I mean, it’s 10-hour days, but it’s three days a week, so it’s almost perfect if I do get pregnant, to be able to squeeze in appointments and things, it just seemed like the absolute right fit.

Winter 27:04
Yeah. Well, that is, that’s a blessing that that came along. And obviously you were patient to wait for the right, right opportunity, I guess. Oh man.

Meghan 27:15
Yeah, cuz I’ve been looking for a job actively, since I was cleared by my doctor six weeks after having Henley. So it took me, you know, a few months.

Winter 27:24
Yeah, it takes a while sometimes. Well good. I think that’s great that you’re doing that. I don’t know if I could do that. That would, I’ll be honest…

Meghan 27:33
I know, I have a lot of people that are like, I don’t know how you manage.

Winter 27:35
Yeah, I was like, I’m not sure how I would be able to do that. That would make me a wreck, I think. I’m pretty sure so.

Meghan 27:41
I know I’ve talked to some people that are like, I couldn’t be around a baby. And I’m like, everyone’s different.

Winter 27:47
It is! I and I was like, I think I still have not held a baby since our son passed away. Just I’m not really a baby holder either, so I guess it’s not too much out of the ordinary for me. I know that you’re going to be coming up here on, you know, Mother’s Day and Father’s Day in the next couple of months. Are you–do guys have anything planned? Are you kind of preparing for that or–?

Meghan 28:10
Not really. I mean, we start the “land of one year laters” February 19. Because February 19 was when I found out I was pregnant with Henley. So we’re kind of rolling into that. It’s been a year later about everything. Um, but we really kind of haven’t thought about it. I kind of just ignored it. To be honest,

Winter 28:28
Sometimes it’s, sometimes it’s easier, right?

Meghan 28:33
And also trying not to think about the, you know, like, one year later, whatever. My husband’s birthday is coming up, and we had found out right before his birthday. And so I’m kind of, just kind of–just gonna push that off to the side. We’re just gonna celebrate your birthday. Like we’re just gonna not acknowledge that totally right now.

Winter 28:48
Yeah. Sometimes you have to do that when you just can’t deal.

Meghan 28:52
I also you know, I’m the other hard thing, the day Henley was born, is actually–there’s a set of twins that I nannied for a full year from when they were like three months old until they were about 15 months, and I still see them regularly. Friends with their parents now. Henley was born on their second birthday.

Winter 29:10
Oh, really?

Meghan 29:13
So, I don’t know if that’s hard–if that’s going to be hard or if it’s going to be good that I’m distracted in their birthday.

Winter 29:19
Right. Well, it’ll always be a special day. Just a word of warning, like I would maybe just be aware of yourself on the day that you found out that she was [still]born, because that that day was rough for me, when my son was [still]born, because I gave birth to him the next day so.

This conversation has been awesome. And you’ve had some amazing things to say and I’m so grateful like how blunt you are and open you are about it, because it’s sometimes…people skirt around, like you said, skirt around, tiptoe around the issue and so it’s nice to…

Meghan 29:52
I just don’t think it helps anyone if you’re not just honest.

Winter 29:55
Yeah. This is the way it is. Kind of sucks. Or doesn’t. Whatever. They’re going to be good days and there’s going to be bad days. Any, any last pieces of advice?

Meghan 30:04
Take the time you need and don’t let anybody tell you how you should or shouldn’t feel. It’s, I mean, clearly, I’ve been told that I’m very different than most in this situation. And you know, I’ve had people tell me that was weird, and I don’t think it’s weird. Everyone’s different and everyone’s going to deal with it differently.

Winter 30:21
Yeah, totally. We’re all different.

Meghan 30:23
Well, there’s no wrong way to greive.

Nope. I think people, yeah, make judgments of like, you should be this way. No. It’s, we’re all different. And it’s surprising sometimes. It’s surprising sometimes. Meghan, thank you so much. This was so great. Like you are just–I appreciate your honesty and sharing your heart. And thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today.

Thank you.

Winter 30:51
Many, many, many thanks to Meghan for a candid, honest story and discussion about Henley. I also super appreciative, that she is helping educate other women who are currently pregnant and trying to get the word out, so that they can keep an eye on their babies and get them here safely. So thank you so much, Meghan, for coming on the podcast today.

Head over to our website StillAPartofUs.com, where you can find the show notes, including a full transcript of this interview, and any resources that were mentioned, where you can sign up for a short and helpful email newsletter, or you can learn how you can become a patron and support the work it takes to produce a show for just a few dollars a month, and lastly, where you can find out how to get in touch with us if you want to share your child’s story on the show. One thing that we wanted to point out on this show, is that you can go over to the show notes in your podcast player and find a link on how to donate a few bucks to help us keep the lights on, so we can continue bringing these beautiful stories to you.

The show is produced and edited by Winter and Lee Redd. Thanks to Josh Woodward for letting us use his song “Vanishing Note”. You can find him at JoshWoodward.com. Lastly, subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend that might need it and tell them to subscribe. Why? Because people need to know that even though our babies are no longer with us, they’re still a part of us.

Lee 32:13
Facebook just sounds like a drag. In my day, seeing pictures of people’s vacation was considered a punishment. Betty White

Transcribed by https://otter.ai