Mom Danielle talks about how she’s grieved, mourned, and celebrated her daughter Lydia’s life after she was stillborn at 30 weeks. She died due to an umbilical cord accident.
Danielle talks about her 2 pregnancies after loss (PAL) and how she coped with the anxiety, and encourages other pregnant moms to “count the kicks” using the Count the Kicks phone app. She also started a local Walk of Remembrance with her friend and fellow loss mom Emily as a way to honor Lydia.
Watch here (YouTube):
Listen here (podcast):
Time Stamps:
00:00 Welcome
2:17 After Lydia’s birth
7:17 Pregnancy after loss with Luke
10:29 Count the Kicks
17:08 Work and how’s she’s coped
27:23 Therapists and grief support
36:14 Coping as a couple
44:06 Keeping Lydia a part of her life
You might appreciate these other episodes:
- Watch/listen to Danielle‘s birth episode of daughter Lydia: Click here
- Watch/listen to Jonah‘s birth episode of daughter Lydia: Click here
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Full Transcription
Winter 0:00
Welcome back, everybody to Sill A Part of Us.
Winter 0:02
I am winter and I’m so grateful to have Danielle here with me today to talk about how she has navigated this time after she’s lost her baby Lydia.
Winter 0:13
First of all, before we get started. There are a couple of housekeeping items, this conversation is going to be full of triggers. So we are talking about infant loss, we’re talking about stillbirth, we are talking about grief and actually pregnancy after loss. So please do not watch this episode, if this is something that would trigger you and be too difficult to listen to. We just want you to be safe and happy. And well, I mean, you can be sad to be safe, we want you to be safe.
Winter 0:42
If you are just joining us for the first time, please consider subscribing to this podcast or this channel. We are a community of loss parents and we are trying to help and support each other. So hit the subscribe button. That helps us out and helps other people find us as well.
Winter 0:56
So Danielle, thank you again for coming on. If you missed her birth episode, I encourage you to listen to it. It was really nice to hear about Lydia and to honor her in that story. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing Lydia with us.
Danielle 1:13
Absolutely. It was my honor. Thank you for having me.
Winter 1:16
Oh, yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. So for some context and background, can you tell us how long ago Lydia was born? And what happened to her?
Danielle 1:26
Sure. Lydia was born about six and a half years ago on October 13, 2014. She was stillborn at 30 weeks pregnant. After a picture perfect pregnancy. We lost her due to an umbilical cord accident where the cord got really tight around her neck and her right ankle. So yeah, it was very, very unexpected, and very heartbreaking. She was our first baby. And the daughter who we love and miss very much every day.
Winter 1:59
Yeah. I’m so sorry. Just it is– it’s so unexpected and devastating. Yeah, there’s nothing more to say just I’m sorry.
Danielle 2:09
Thank you.
Winter 2:11
It’s been six and a half years. How has that looked for you? How has that grief landscape looked for you?
Danielle 2:18
Um, it’s been full of lots of ups and downs. Grief is really crazy. I found over the years, especially as more time goes on, I’ve learned to live with the grief a lot better. Of course, early on, it’s all consuming for so long. But now it’s just kind of a part of me. I’ve accepted that. It has its ups and downs. I definitely have a lot more good days now than I did after we first lost Lydia. There are still times where something comes up. And it really triggers the fact that she’s not here, or triggers something that we experienced around the time we lost her. It just makes it feel so raw and fresh again.
Danielle 3:02
So it’s crazy that even as so much time has passed there can still be those moments where it feels like it just happened. Like I just held her and one funny thing I found about grief, even kind of early on as in that first year. I get more upset the more time that passes, because it’s been so long since I got to hold her. So it’s almost like I feel those memories are getting further and further away. That feeling of holding her. I can still feel her against my chest. But now that more time has passed. It’s just hard to accept that it was even longer ago. The memories are not as fresh as they once were.
Winter 3:47
Yeah.
Danielle 3:47
So that’s been kind of a hard thing. Yeah I guess every day is another day closer to being reunited with her and heaven one day, I believe so. There’s that part of it too but yeah, grief’s been crazy. We have had two other babies since then. Actually we have another one on the way right now.
Danielle 4:12
Congratulate
Danielle 4:13
So yeah, after Lydia died, she was our first baby and I just felt so empty. I mean I’m sure every mother who’s lost a baby feels so empty, but it was so hard to return home to a quiet house. I was just so devastated about that and so desperate to have my baby in my arms. I wanted Lydia so it’s not like I just wanted any baby. I really wanted Lydia, but at the same time I just want to have a baby here to hold. I just felt that so desperately.
Danielle 4:54
We talked about trying for another baby pretty soon after Lydia died. Another part of me was also just scared. Since she was our first baby, I’m like, are we ever going to have a living baby? Oh, I was so scared, it would never happen for us. So I wanted to hurry up and —
Winter 5:11
Make sure you can get–
Danielle 5:13
Like, are we gonna be able to have a baby to bring home? So we started trying. The doctor suggested we wait six months, but he said after three months is really the minimum. So we started trying about three months after Lydia passed away. It took like a few, three or four months, but then I did get pregnant. About six months, I guess it was I think we found out in April. So about six months after he had passed away that we were expecting another baby. So that was just absolutely terrifying experience. It was happy on one hand and terrified, on the other hand. About if something is going to go wrong with this pregnancy.
Danielle 5:59
Yeah.
Danielle 6:00
So that was just pregnancy after loss. It’s just a total own experience. I was terrified the whole time. From the very beginning. I was in and out. I had a wonderful doctor, and I found a new doctor. She was so understanding and let me come in all the time, even early on.
Winter 6:19
Great!
Danielle 6:20
I kept coming in and–
Winter 6:22
Just checking.
Danielle 6:23
Yeah, like, can you check my hormone levels? Can you check this? Let’s make sure everything’s good. I was a crazy person. And we did have a scare at 11 weeks. I was close to the end of the first trimester. My husband and I went to the airport with our first rainbow pregnancy. We were going to Virginia, and I went to the bathroom and I was bleeding heavily all of a sudden. And having cramps and we left the airport and went to the hospital, thinking for sure we had a miscarriage. But lo and behold, our baby was still there with a strong heartbeat. We both just cried and later learned it was a sub chorionic hematoma. A blood clot type thing that can cause bleeding. It can also cause lots of extra anxiety that after loss moms do not need to know.
Winter 7:10
Yeah, and it does happen. I mean we’ve had a couple people on and it’s concerning. It’s scary. Scary.
Danielle 7:17
Yeah, for sure. So that was the big scare with that baby. We found out it was a boy, our son Luke, who’s now five.
Danielle 7:26
How’d you feel about– Yeah, I was gonna say, how’d you feel about having a boy?
Danielle 7:31
Yeah, that if I’m completely honest, and I feel so bad saying it, especially because I love my son so much. I wouldn’t change him for the world.
Winter 7:41
Yeah of course!
Danielle 7:42
It was really hard for me to accept having a boy after Lydia died. I really, I think it was just kind of in my head. I don’t think I could fully take it all in. It was just really confusing and hard. It was only six months after my loss. And I was pregnant again. I’m still deeply grieving. Anxious and confused, like so much going on. And I’m yearning for Lydia. I also want another girl because Lydia was a girl, but I really want Lydia.
Winter 8:13
Yeah.
Danielle 8:14
But then it’s a boy. I was struggling with how to feel about that. On one hand, I was so grateful because it made the pregnancy more different.
Winter 8:22
Yes.
Winter 8:23
You know?
Winter 8:24
Yeah.
Danielle 8:24
This is making it– that made it a little bit easier. I feel like if it had been a girl I would have been even more terrified. If that’s even possible, though.
Winter 8:24
Yeah, yeah.
Danielle 8:34
I had a little bit of a hard time with that for a while. But ultimately, what was most important was just having a healthy living baby. So that pregnancy thankfully progressed, without any issues. Due to our stillbirth with Lydia, our team of doctors like I was seen by the OB and then the Maternal Fetal Medicine Specialist.
Winter 8:59
Oh, great! Okay.
Danielle 9:00
Yeah, they monitored me very closely throughout that pregnancy, especially in the third trimester, twice a week. Biophysical profiles and on stress tests. So I felt pretty good about that. I felt good at the time that I was there for my monitoring. In the time in between, I was like, is everything still okay? But I was very, very good about counting my kicks in that pregnancy.
Danielle 9:24
In that time, after Lydia died, I actually had become an ambassador for count the kicks. Which is a nonprofit organization that educates expectant mothers about the importance of monitoring your baby’s movements during the third trimester of pregnancy and why that’s so important. How a change in your normal baby, or in your baby’s normal movement pattern in the third trimester can signal a problem. So I found that organization and I became involved with that organization. So I was a count the kicks ambassador and pregnant after loss. So I was using my count the kicks app all the time. I was fully educated on the importance of it and how to do it.
Winter 10:10
I think that I just want everybody to know that is a really if you can– if you are an expectant mother, this is something that you really should get on your phone. It doesn’t take very long to do. I think it’s 10 minutes, or basically until you get 10 movements. Is that right?
Danielle 10:28
Yeah, yeah. So basically, there’s an app, count the kicks app. And yeah. Once you’re in the third trimester, you pick around the same time each day when your baby’s typically active, and you just track how long it takes for your baby to do 10 movements. Like kicks, punches, jabs, rolls, anything like movement, not actual hiccups, but like movements. And you track how long that takes. Over time, you’ll see a normal pattern for your baby. And if your baby, if their normal time to reach those 10 movements changes significantly. If it’s a lot slower than normal, or even if it’s a whole lot faster, those can be warning signs. Those are definitely reasons to contact your provider and get monitoring. I mean, chances are everything could be fine, but it’s definitely better to be safe than sorry. By counting kicks, and using that app, you’ll get a chart of how long it takes, you’ll have that quantifiable data to show your doctor and then you won’t be guessing. Like his baby slower today?
Winter 11:33
Yeah.
Danielle 11:34
You’ll have your record of it.
Winter 11:35
Yeah. It’s a really nice little app. Yeah, I used it with this last pregnancy and–
Danielle 11:41
Oh, good!
Winter 11:42
With our son Felix and I, that was one thing that was actually really surprising. That’s why I’m glad you said this. But I was expecting, oh, if he has decreased movement, that’s what it was in my head. But it could be increased movement, too.
Danielle 11:56
Right!
Winter 11:56
Because you mentioned during the birth story that Lydia was going crazy, probably the day that she maybe got a little bit more tangled up in the umbilical cord, or something. I’m not totally sure, but that has been kind of the pattern in some of our interviews. Where they, the mom, felt a lot more movement like crazy movement that is not normal for that baby and the time of the day. So that was surprising for me to learn that when I was counting kicks this go around.
Danielle 12:29
Right! Yeah, most people would not expect that. But it does seem to be kind of a common theme. A lot of the stillbirth stories I’ve heard. I definitely wonder about that. Wonder that about Lydia since that night before we found out she passed. She was going crazy. And I’m like, yeah, so that was when she got tangled up?
Winter 12:48
Yeah.
Danielle 12:50
But anyway, yeah, the app really doesn’t take long to do. I mean it’s gonna be different for every baby depending on how long it takes for them to get to 10 movements on average. I know with my son, Luke, and then with my other daughter, Laila, my second rainbow pregnancy, I was usually able to get my 10 movements in like five or six minutes.
Winter 13:07
Yeah.
Danielle 13:07
It’s not like you’ve got to sit down for an hour.
Winter 13:11
No. Yeah.
Danielle 13:13
At least not typically, I wouldn’t think.
Winter 13:16
Yeah. I think that’s really cool that you became an ambassador and searched out more information to help you. Did that feel like that was a little bit of semblance of control, or trying to figure out what happened after she passed away?
Danielle 13:30
Yeah, yeah. So after Lydia died once I was kind of settling in back home, I took some leave from work. I was in no state to return back to work. I just spent time googling stillbirth. And I’m like, how does this happen? Because I had no idea. Perfect pregnancies with healthy mothers can suddenly result in stillbirth. I was baffled.
Winter 13:57
Right.
Danielle 13:58
I was shocked when I saw 1 in 160 pregnancies end in stillbirth. Anyway, through my research, I came across kick counting and somehow landed on the count the kicks.org page. I was reading about it and these five women in Iowa who have all lost babies, they started the organization together. Based on research that they had seen in Norway where the stillbirth rate decreased.
Winter 14:22
Yeah.
Danielle 14:22
So they brought it to the US. Then on the page I stumbled across, they were looking for volunteer ambassadors. So for me when Lydia died one thing that was so important for me and still is, is to continue to honor her in as many ways as I can carry her legacy on. That’s just something that is really, really big for me as her mom. This sounds scary to me to get involved in this, but this is a great way to honor Lydia and to help save babies because I don’t want this to happen to anybody else.
Winter 14:22
Yeah.
Danielle 14:59
I want everybody to know. I didn’t know. I truly, truly believe if I had been counting Lydia’s kicks, and knew that her movements were changing and her not moving that day was not normal. I could have gone to the hospital, possibly. I mean, I don’t know for sure, but she could have been saved. If I had gone in earlier Sunday was she still alive at that point? I don’t know.
Danielle 15:24
Anyway, I had reached out to that organization. They’re like, yeah, we’re looking for ambassadors. They were actually having a training in Iowa. Not long after that, like, six months after Lydia passed. I’d actually just found out I was pregnant with Luke, when I went. I traveled to Iowa, and went through the training to become an ambassador. I met these other ambassadors too. Most of them have lost babies themselves. Some have baby safe stories. I know we talked before about finding your tribe.
Winter 15:55
Yeah.
Danielle 15:55
I’m like, these people are my tribe. When you find other loss moms.
Winter 16:02
Yeah.
Danielle 16:03
You just connect so easily. It’s such a great support system. I just met all these women I never knew. It was just– I don’t know, I felt so supported being there. I knew I was in the right place and doing the right thing, so.
Winter 16:20
That’s cool.
Danielle 16:21
I was really glad to be involved in that. Then yeah, it was a big part of my pregnancy with Luke too, for sure.
Winter 16:27
Which is great. So when you went back, you took some time off from work right after? Did you take 12 weeks, or did you just end up kind of like, I’m gonna make sure Luke gets here okay or like hang out at home or whatever?
Danielle 16:43
Yeah. So after that, are you asking about after Lydia died? Or-
Winter 16:48
After Lydia died. Yeah.
Danielle 16:49
Yeah. After Lydia died. I took six weeks off of work. So-
Winter 16:53
Okay.
Danielle 16:53
I went back in December, I believe, or? I don’t know, like, right around the New Year.
Winter 16:59
Yeah.
Danielle 16:59
So I was already back at work before I even got pregnant with Luke.
Winter 17:04
How is that going back to where– did where people at work? Okay. Do they know?
Danielle 17:08
Well, yeah. So thankfully, I work with the most amazing people. They’re all super caring and supportive. I do work remotely. So I work from home, but I travel from time to time as well. Everyone was super supportive and told me if you need to take time in the middle of the day do it. Do what you need to do. So–
Winter 17:30
That’s great.
Danielle 17:30
That was helpful. Being able to work from home was helpful. At least I wasn’t having to be around people and lose it in the office. I could just walk down the hall and lose it privately.
Winter 17:41
Good.
Danielle 17:43
Yeah. So that, in a way, was good. But also I was just in my house all by myself every day. My quiet house, and it was kind of, I think it made me even more depressed. Just being there alone every day when I should have been having a baby.
Winter 18:01
Yeah.
Danielle 18:02
–To take care of. So it had its pros and cons. But yeah, I spent much of that time off just kind of researching and trying to actually, I should say, I was gonna say trying to understand what happened because I was doing that. But also, I had started blogging at the time. Writing letters to Lydia in a blog format. That was super helpful for me and my grief. There was a way for me to share about Lydia.
Danielle 18:31
I would share my blog on my Facebook page. I think it kind of opened a way for other people to not understand because nobody can understand fully without going through it. But I think it kind of helps people to know a little bit more about where I was at. And how I was feeling and that kind of thing. So the blog was helpful for me just writing. I felt so much better when I would write to her and felt so connected to her. But I also found it helpful to even share that.
Danielle 19:02
Everybody’s different. Some people are super private, and that’s totally okay. I wasn’t super private. I just, I thought it was helpful, because I felt people were really supportive of me, which I needed. I was hearing from people that I hadn’t heard from in years. People reaching out and offering their support. Our family was great, our siblings, parents and best friends. We had a lot of support. But I think through all of that as well, you also kind of noticed who’s not supporting you?
Winter 19:34
Oh, that’s interesting.
Danielle 19:35
You quickly figure that out as well.
Winter 19:37
Yeah.
Danielle 19:39
Overtime those people take more of a–
Winter 19:41
A backseat. It’s fine.
Danielle 19:43
A backseat in your life because they weren’t there when you really needed them.
Winter 19:47
Yeah.
Danielle 19:47
So I blogged a lot while I was off and the weather was really beautiful. During that time here in South Carolina it’s not really cold in the fall. It was just that nice cool beautiful pretty weather. So I would just– we had a hammock in the backyard and I would just lay there. And look up to the sky and think about Lydia and heaven. There would always be these yellow butterflies flying around. I don’t know. It’s just special. I’m like, oh, like tying everything to Lydia. Like Lydia’s up in heaven like dancing around. I don’t know the butterflies. Everything. Everything beautiful made me think of her.
Winter 20:02
That’s great.
Danielle 20:02
That’s how I spent my leave. I was just reflecting and crying.
Danielle 20:11
Yes, so much crying.
Danielle 20:36
Crying non stop. Feeling shocked and miserable, but also, really just trying. I don’t know, I feel like I noticed things a lot more after she died. I noticed the beauty and life too after she died. Just everything reminded me of her. Everything beautiful reminded me of her. So, that was kind of a nice part of it. If that’s even the right way to put it, anyway.
Winter 21:05
I know. It’s Yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes we need big things like this to happen for us to stop and notice stuff. Which is not the best way of putting it. But yeah, that’s kind of how I felt after Brandan passed away. Yeah, you just see things differently.
Danielle 21:20
Yes, for sure. Some things in a good way. And some things maybe not so much.
Winter 21:25
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Danielle 21:28
I know for me, and probably for you, too. It’s like there’s a before and after. I see pictures of me. I’m like that was before.
Winter 21:34
Yeah.
Danielle 21:35
Lydia died. I see pictures of me and that was like two different lives almost. Because your life just changes drastically. You’re so different.
Winter 21:44
Yeah, you’re so different after that. So you are six months after and you’re pregnant with Luke and you’re terrified.
Danielle 21:55
Yes.
Winter 21:56
So you guys went in quite a bit and got checked. It sounded like you had a great team that was really trying to take care of you and make sure you we’re good. How was his birth? Was that just something that was? It’s such a crazy experience, isn’t it?
Danielle 22:14
Yeah.
Winter 22:15
Birth after loss is like crazy.
Danielle 22:17
Yeah.
Danielle 22:19
Yeah, that was terrifying again. I was so scared, something was going to happen. They did induce me at 39 weeks. That was the earliest, they would induce me unless something else is significantly wrong. But they induced me at 39 weeks and everything went pretty smoothly.
Danielle 22:37
I do know when he first came out I felt like he didn’t cry right away. I was waiting. There was that second, and I was getting terrified. But then he just started screaming so loud.
Winter 22:48
And you’re like, Okay?
Danielle 22:51
He was an angry baby. He really was. He was so red. He was so mad when he was born. He did not want to get out of there. Like why are you taking me out of here? My husband says that the cord was around his neck. I didn’t see it.
Winter 23:10
Yeah.
Danielle 23:11
I guess they like unraveled it. So that was a little unnerving to hear. So I don’t know if that’s why it took him a second to cry or not. I mean, it wasn’t that long. It was long enough for somebody who’s been through loss to like–
Winter 23:24
Know, yeah.
Danielle 23:26
But he was healthy and everything went well. So yeah, it was just surreal to have a living, breathing baby in my arms. We saw so much of Lydia in him. That was really nice to see. We had her pictures there with us.
Winter 23:45
Oh, good.
Danielle 23:45
At the hospital and our Lydia bear.
Danielle 23:48
Yeah.
Danielle 23:48
Our weighted bear that Jonah’s cousin made for us. That weighs three pounds, eight ounces, like Lydia did. So, we felt like she was there with us. What’s really crazy is so Lydia was born on October 13th. Then Luke was born on December 13th.
Winter 24:07
Oh!
Danielle 24:07
So the same date. Then our rainbow baby after Luke, Laila. She was born on November 13th.
Winter 24:15
Whoa!
Danielle 24:16
Yeah. All of our 13th babies. I was like, this is like a sign from Lydia. I don’t know. I just always look for these little signs.
Winter 24:28
Me too! I totally do that too! Yes, yes, I think that’s cool!
Danielle 24:36
It’s really nice that they all kind of share that date in common. But yeah, I mean, bringing Luke home it was a wonderful thing. It was also really hard. It had only been just over a year since Lydia died and I was still like, I felt like being pregnant so soon after she died really made it hard for me to fully grieve. I was so distracted by my anxiety.
Winter 25:02
Yeah.
Danielle 25:02
You know?
Winter 25:03
Yes.
Danielle 25:04
So it’s like I hadn’t, I don’t know, it’s like a really great place to be honest to the outside world. You’re probably so happy you had this baby at home and I was, but I was really looking back. I know, I had postpartum depression, or even just depression and grief, with everything going on. I was in a really bad place for a while. I didn’t want to take anything. So I’m like, I’ll be fine. This is just grief. But looking back, I’m like, I should have probably tried to take something to help. I was just having a hard time but at the same time, Luke brought lots of joy to our life that we really needed.
Winter 25:47
Yeah.
Danielle 25:47
And gave us those sleepless nights that we so longed for with Lydia.
Winter 25:53
Right. Isn’t that funny?
Danielle 25:54
Yeah.
Winter 25:54
You long for those when you don’t have them?
Danielle 25:57
Yes, for sure.
Winter 25:59
We are experiencing the first three months of our parenting after loss.
Danielle 26:05
Yeah.
Winter 26:05
It really is. You are so excited. You’re so excited. You’re so happy and so joyful. But then yet there’s like, this layer of guilt too.
Danielle 26:13
Yes.
Winter 26:14
You’re just, like, how can I be so happy when I’m missing somebody in my little family. So yeah.
Danielle 26:22
Right! My family never feels complete. Then also just seeing the baby go through–
Winter 26:27
Yeah.
Danielle 26:28
–the milestones and things like that, that you never got to see.
Winter 26:31
Yeah.
Danielle 26:32
That was hard for us too. One reason we picked Luke as his name is that it means brings light. And I just think that’s so true for him. He brought, and still brings, so much light back into our lives that we really needed. We’ll always have our pain from Lydia not being here. But he has helped to heal. I always feel weird about seeing healed because like, to me healed is like when you’re completely better. And I’m like, we’ll never be completely better. But like, I feel like he’s brought a lot of healing.
Winter 27:02
Yeah.
Danielle 27:03
To our lives. And he’s an amazing boy, so.
Danielle 27:06
That’s great. After you lost Lydia, and you had become a count the kicks ambassador and you kind of found your tribe, found your people. Were you going to any other sort of grief support groups, any therapists, or anything too during that time?
Danielle 27:23
Yes, yes, I did try a couple of grief therapists and I did not have the best experiences. There was one I went to who I was talking about Lydia dying. Toward the end of the appointment, she gets out her wallet. And is like, oh, look at this picture of my new baby granddaughter. I’m like, did you not hear what I just talked about for the last hour. So that was just one experience. I don’t know, I just had a really hard time finding a good grief therapist at the time.
Danielle 27:55
I did have a really great support group. They have one down here through one of our hospitals in Charleston. I had gotten involved in that. That was super helpful. Again, being able to connect with other loss moms and dads, mostly moms, not a lot of dads really attended at the time. But that was very needed in my life at the time.
Danielle 28:16
So I always recommend support groups to other people who are going through loss. Some people like it, some people probably not so much. It was really helpful for me too. Not just to talk about all the grief and everything like that, but some of them were further out than me and had another baby. It was like glimmers of hope to see another loss parent.
Winter 28:40
Yeah.
Danielle 28:41
So that was really helpful. After Luke was born, I found another therapist who specialized in grief and talked to her. So that was like a year after Lydia died, but she was a lot more helpful than the prior.
Winter 28:55
You’ve got to shop around.
Danielle 28:56
Shop around for a while.
Winter 28:56
Yeah, I was gonna say you’ve got to try out those therapists and counselors.
Danielle 29:00
Yeah, for sure!
Winter 29:01
Not everybody’s a good match so.
Danielle 29:03
No, no. So now it’s been six and a half years. So I don’t do that support group as often anymore. I do try to hop in there sometimes. Just to connect, or offer support or advice. That’s how I met my friend Emily, who’s one of my best friends now. Who is also a loss mom.
Danielle 29:22
I feel like having those support groups is so vital because people understand what you’re feeling. You can have a deeper connection with them than you can with people who have not been through the experience.
Winter 29:35
Yeah.
Danielle 29:36
I also was in support groups on Facebook. They were stillbirth support groups that was my lifeline.
Winter 29:44
Yeah.
Danielle 29:45
That first year after Lydia died. I connected with two girls in particular who were my best friends. Like my best virtual friends. I’d never met them. They were in other states. One was Kim and one more Holly and we messaged each other every day after we connected. We had lost our babies at the same time. We understood what each other was going through. Then we also went through pregnancy after loss at the same time.
Winter 30:13
Really?
Danielle 30:14
Yes. So we would always be so terrified. It’s like, Oh, me too! We were like–
Winter 30:19
You’re in it together.
Danielle 30:22
I am so grateful for that. Like, I don’t talk to them as often as I used to. But they are always going to have a special place in my heart.
Winter 30:30
Yeah.
Danielle 30:31
I even got to meet one, one day. One lived in Canada, and she came down to Myrtle Beach. We got to meet.
Winter 30:35
Oh, that’s great.
Danielle 30:37
Hopefully, I’ll get to meet Kim one day too. She’s up in Massachusetts. New Hampshire not Massachusetts. But yeah.
Winter 30:44
One day that might should happen.
Danielle 30:47
I know!
Winter 30:48
Yeah, that’s cool. I know, I was gonna say there are– I feel like there’s a lot of resources. I think one of the silver linings of the pandemic is that a lot of these grief support groups are online. They’re all virtual nowadays.
Danielle 31:01
Yeah!
Winter 31:01
Right now. And it is– you can jump on to any of those. It seems like there’s a lot of resources, which is great.
Danielle 31:09
Yeah, for sure. I was so grateful to find it. I’ve just felt like I couldn’t survive without it. I needed people to talk to who could understand. So that was huge for me.
Winter 31:20
You mentioned Emily before. So Emily actually came on the podcast early on. So I will link to that in the show notes and in the description box, so that you can listen to that because you guys are in the same area. I think you guys met at one of the grief support groups, right?
Danielle 31:37
Yeah, yep. We met at the one through the hospital, actually, like a yoga instructor. I had taken yoga when I was pregnant with Luke, to try to help with my anxiety. Later Emily did yoga during pregnancy. So Emily went through it before she lost Margaret. So that yoga instructor reached out to me once Emily lost her baby. I’m pretty sure, I don’t remember if I had given the yoga instructor the grief group information to pass on to Emily or if she found it on her own. But regardless, she found the grief group and I ended up going to offer my support. Emily and I just started emailing and then that turned into texting. Now we text each other every day.
Winter 32:23
Yeah!
Danielle 32:25
She lost Margaret, almost two years ago, two years ago next month.
Danielle 32:29
Yeah.
Danielle 32:29
To stillbirth as well. They didn’t really have a conclusive reason, but she and I have really connected on that level.
Danielle 32:38
I appreciate those kinds of connections. You guys do the walk of remembrance for your hospital or your area, right?
Danielle 32:40
Yeah.
Winter 32:40
In October, usually.
Danielle 32:40
Yes. So shortly after Emily and I met, there used to be a walk of remembrance hosted by the hospital. Then they had to stop doing it. I guess they didn’t have anybody who was willing to, or who had the time or resources to continue. I was so sad. This is one of the only ways that we all get to come together each year and honor all of our babies.
Danielle 33:10
So I talked to Emily about it. I was like, I wonder if we could start looking at our own walk. She was so fresh in her grief, but she was like, yeah, let’s do it. She was willing to help me. So I was like, okay as long as I’m not doing it on my own. Let’s do this.
Danielle 33:24
So we started planning a walk of remembrance. We call it Walk of remembrance miles for Margaret, Lydia, and all babies gone too soon. We started that two years ago. We decided to do it also as a fundraiser for count the kicks.
Winter 33:37
Yeah. Which is great!
Danielle 33:39
Yeah, that organization is so important to us. So we’re like, we can honor all of our babies and we also raise money to help prevent stillbirth.
Danielle 33:47
We had a really successful turnout the first year and the second year was even more successful. Which is crazy, because that was during COVID and it was virtual. So we are planning to do that again this year. We don’t have a date yet. But, yeah we usually do it early fall. We like to do it in October because of pregnancy and infant loss Awareness Month. So it may be early October, however, I am pregnant again and due around that same time. Not a 100% Sure. Maybe September, or maybe the first weekend in October this year. We’ll definitely share the Facebook page and everything that people can follow.
Winter 34:26
Yeah, Yes, for sure.
Danielle 34:28
For updates. We do like an in person walk. We didn’t last year with COVID and I’m hoping we can do one this year. But we also always open it up to like anybody across the I mean anybody anywhere who wants to walk and honor their baby and put their baby’s name on the back of the shirt. Yeah, anywhere I can put Lydia’s name and like Sign me up. Yeah, we’d love to have anybody join us and help raise money for count the kicks with us as well.
Winter 34:52
Yeah, I will put links also for that in the show notes in the description box. Because I think it’s so cool what you guys have done. I just think that in general, like you said, anytime we get to talk and get together to talk about our babies it’s great. It’s a wonderful opportunity. Then what you’re doing for count the kicks, because I’m all about that too. I was like, oh, maybe I should become an ambassador for that, or something. Cause I’m all about it!
Danielle 35:17
I’ll recruite you.
Winter 35:20
Fine! Do it! Let’s do it!
Danielle 35:21
You’re in Utah, right?
Winter 35:22
Yes. I don’t think there’s anybody in Utah.
Winter 35:24
Yeah I don’t think they have anyone.
Winter 35:25
Oh, yeah, I don’t think so either.
Danielle 35:26
Signing you up!
Winter 35:27
My friend Lindsey, who we had on the podcast. Also, just became an ambassador for Idaho. So I’ve been paying attention to what she’s been posting. It’s kind of fun to see all that.
Winter 35:38
They are doing great work. So if you guys need a place to donate money or to We can we can save some of these little babies. So yeah, using that education.
Danielle 35:50
Exactly.
Winter 35:51
So I do have a couple of things that I’d like to ask you. I know that loss can be so taxing on a marriage, and other relationships in general, right.
Danielle 36:05
Yeah.
Winter 36:05
With friendships and other things. I’m wondering how you and Jonah have done with the loss? Like how is that? How has that been for you guys?
Danielle 36:14
Yeah, it was really hard. I mean, I don’t feel like or I guess I’m trying to think of how to answer it. I feel like we did get closer in a way afterward, just because we went through such a traumatic experience together. We were both just so devastated. So it’s like, in a way we drew closer to each other. But we also grieved very differently. My husband is a very hands on kind of guy like wanting to be in the garage and stuff. I know, after Lydia died he’s building shelves in the garage. It’s kind of like, that was how he–
Danielle 36:48
Oh!
Danielle 36:48
Like kind of working on things or things to keep him busy.
Danielle 36:54
I was more the one who just needed to sit and cry and stuff. But he was always and he still is always very supportive of me. He always wants to know if I’m having a hard time, or if I’m struggling. So he can be there to support me, which I appreciate. I will say I’m not the best at always letting him know. Sometimes I’m just very private about when I’m feeling down. I don’t like to share it. But he always wants to know, because he wants to be there for me. He’s always been super supportive of the count the kicks stuff I do. Like the walk and wanting to help and support me and honor Lydia in that way. So that’s been really nice.
Danielle 37:38
But yeah, I feel like we do grieve in different ways. But we’re very supportive of each other. And yeah, I guess that’s kind of how I put it. I mean, I feel like over time, I think I struggle with things more now than maybe he does like in terms of like maybe I have those like fresh grief moments more than he does at this point. But again, he’s still very supportive and wants to honor Lydia just like I do. So. That’s been really helpful.
Winter 38:07
Yeah, that is super helpful. And just even acknowledging that we’re different people, right. And that’s how, how he handles things and how you’ve handled things, or it’s just different. So it’s not wrong. It’s just different.
Danielle 38:20
Yeah, exactly.
Winter 38:22
Yeah. This is the part that I kind of enjoy actually quite a bit. I was gonna say, was there anything that anybody did or said to you, that really stuck out to you as being super helpful? That you appreciated? They said that or helps you kind of move through a part that was difficult during your grief?
Danielle 38:41
Yeah, there were people who just said I’m here for you and just showed up. Our small group that I talked about last episode, from church, they would just bring stuff over. Like food or just jump into help. Some neighbors did that as well without asking. Like, what do you need, but then another person that was super helpful for me was my best friend Nancy. She wouldn’t say the cliche things to try to make you feel better. She just always let me know that she’s there. She went above and beyond to help me honor Lydia and she still does.
Danielle 39:19
Lydia was due in December. We lost her in October. When Lydia’s due date approached, she completely surprised me. She reached out somehow to our family and friends and arranged so that people started sending us anything with angels on it.
Winter 39:36
Oh!
Danielle 39:36
With Lydia’s due date. Yeah, like I kept checking the mail. Every day we’d get a new like a willow tree Angel sculpture, or the most beautiful things. People were having their kids draw Angel bars, and it was just the sweetest thing and I’m so grateful. She did that. I’m so grateful for everybody who participated in that. I now have a whole Curio cabinet with angels that people have sent us back then on her due date. And over the years, just to show us that they were thinking of Lydia and thinking of us.
Danielle 40:15
So that’s really just been the most helpful, just her, or anybody like our family members or our close friends. Just saying I thought of Lydia today, or I saw this and it made me think of Lydia. That’s what’s most important for me is just knowing that she is remembered. She is important to other people, too. That her life, her legacy carries on that’s, that’s what’s been biggest for me and most helpful for me.
Winter 40:40
Yeah, just remember them. Yeah, remember them and say their name, say her name.
Danielle 40:46
Yeah, just say Lydia.
Winter 40:48
Yeah!
Danielle 40:49
I don’t know. I was at the doctor recently. They’re like, you know, in my new pregnancy, and they brought up something about Lydia. They’re like, I’m so sorry, I keep bringing this up. And it’s like–
Winter 40:58
No! don’t say sorry.
Danielle 41:00
Don’t be sorry. This is something that I think about all the time. So it’s not like you’re just suddenly reminding me of something. I am happy to talk about Lydia anytime you want. You know?
Winter 41:12
Yeah.
Danielle 41:12
It’s not.. They have such a different perspective.
Winter 41:15
Yeah. I think they’re just worried everybody’s always just a little bit worried that they’re going to say something wrong. And yeah, bring it all up again. And you’re just like, this is? Yeah, I’m living with this. This is who I am now. So yeah, for sure. And on the flip side, is there anything that you would recommend not saying? Yeah, maybe a loss mom or loss dad. And that can be when it’s still very fresh. And also, later, now that it’s been a little bit longer if there’s anything that you would recommend people not say? Yes, as time has passed on.
Danielle 41:47
I mean, that’s just this thing. Like people said to me early on, like, oh, like, I remember, I went to get a manicure with my mom. And I told the lady doing my nails. What happened? She’s like, Oh, well, something may have happened later that now she’s been saved from that. Maybe she would have gotten really sick. Like, what? Like, things like that. They’re trying to make it like, Oh, well, it’s a good thing that happened, because something worse could have happened. I don’t know. It was so bizarre and horrible. Just things like that really downplay it, or were other people. They’re trying to make themselves feel better. I think those things are not helpful.
Danielle 42:27
There was something else I was gonna mention. Oh, like, you can have another baby.
Winter 42:31
Oh, yeah.
Danielle 42:31
It is a common one. Yeah, I want to have another baby, but, and I do have Luke, and Lailay, and my rainbow babies and another one on the way. These babies are never going to replace Lydia. Lydia was her own person, just like Luke and Laila are their own people. So that’s just not helpful. It’s almost more of a stab in the heart than it is helpful.
Winter 42:58
Yeah.
Danielle 42:59
So things like that. I Try to be as understanding as possible when people say things like that, just like they’re trying to help. So I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. But those things are not helpful. So yeah.
Winter 43:15
Yeah. You just did, like, okay, whatever. You just move on, right? Sometimes, like, yeah. should just say I’m sorry. That’s always good.
Unknown Speaker 43:24
Yeah. Yeah. Just say you’re sorry. And that you’re there or just show up and yeah, bring things and send things like and yeah, say the baby’s name or send something with the baby’s name on it. Those things are the most powerful for sure. Yeah,
Winter 43:40
exactly. Danielle, this has been so fun to talk to you and fun. I yeah, yeah, it has been fun. I know. It’s one of those things where we’re like, we’re talking about a really difficult topic. But it’s been really delightful talking to you, actually. And so nice talking to you, too. I really appreciate you coming on. And I actually wanted to ask you if you had any last little bit of advice, or anything that you would like to share with anybody about Lydia too.
Danielle 44:06
Yeah, I mean, in terms of advice, I would just say even though your babies are no longer physically here you can still keep them very active in your life. That’s something we’ve done in our family. Whether it’s including her in a picture with a Lydia bear, or doing things to honor her like the walk or raising money. I think we can still very much parent or babies even though they’re not with us, it’s just in a much different way and not in the way that we would like to but I just encourage other loss parents to find ways that work for them to do that. I mean, it may be something more private. Not everybody is open to different things, but find what works for you. Ways that you can continue to keep that baby’s spirit alive in your family.
Danielle 44:55
Then the other thing I would say is just try not to compare yourself too much to other parents. Which is something I’m still working on.
Winter 45:02
We all do.
Danielle 45:03
I’m connected with a lot of loss parents now through online and grief groups. Some of them are doing things all the time. I’m like, Oh, I’m not doing enough to honor my baby. So just know we’re all different. We all love our babies. Like you do you?
Winter 45:22
Yeah, yeah, you do you. You figure out what you’re doing
Danielle 45:25
Just because you’re one doing more than me. Or you feel like somebody is doing more than you or just try not to get too caught up on that. Do what works for you and your family. And yeah, what makes you feel connected to your baby.
Danielle 45:41
Then the thing I’d share about Lydia would just say that I’m just so grateful to be her mom. I wouldn’t trade it in the world for anything in the world. Even though she’s not with us, and I wish she was. I’m just so so grateful to be a mom to her. I really think she’s a special little girl and it’s just an honor to share her little legacy with other people. Yeah, I love my Lydia. My Lydia Jaelle.
Winter 46:08
I love it. Thank you so much, Danielle. Once again. Thank you so much.
Danielle 46:13
Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai