In this interview, mom Lori Ann describes what grief and mourning has looked like for her after her son Owen David was born via emergency C-section one week before the COVID-19 pandemic shut everything down in her area. He was 26 weeks old and passed away a short time after he was born. She tells of how she incorporates him into their lives on daily basis, how she and her husband have learned to support each other, and that grief is like waves and how you learn to ride them.
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Time Stamps:
00:00 Baby’s name
You might appreciate these other episodes:
- Watch/listen to Lori Ann’s birth episode of son Owen: Click here
- Watch/listen Matt (Lori Ann’s husband) birth episode of son Owen: Click here
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Full Transcription:
Winter 0:00
We are so happy to be here together. I’m so excited to have LoriAnn on this episode to talk a little bit more about her son Owen. He passed away last year in 2020. If you haven’t had a chance to listen to her birth story, please go back and listen to it because it was so powerful and so touching and it will make you cry. Just a heads up, it will make you cry. So, but LoriAnn thank you so much for coming on today and talking to us a little bit about grief and what it looks like for you in the last year. So thank you. Welcome again.
Lori Ann 0:34
Thank you.
Winter 0:36
As a little bit of context, your son Owen. When was he born? And how long ago was it when everything went down?
Lori Ann 0:44
He was born March 10 of 2020. His due date was June 14, but he was born at 26 weeks.
Winter 0:54
26 weeks? Yeah. So obviously, when he was born at 26 weeks, there were a lot of issues because your water had broken at 21 weeks.
Lori Ann 0:55
Yeah.
Winter 0:58
He just didn’t have a lot of time to develop and, and was struggling to–
Winter 1:10
Yeah.
Winter 1:10
–to kind of thrive on his own. Right?
Lori Ann 1:12
Yeah, the doctors actually say that the most important stage of a fetus’ time to grow their lungs is between 21 weeks and 24 weeks. So when my water broke at 21 weeks, and he made it to 26 weeks, he missed that most important part of when the lungs develop.
Winter 1:41
Yeah.
Lori Ann 1:41
So they just didn’t, they just couldn’t develop. Enough. So um, that’s ultimately why he passed away.
Winter 1:49
Yeah, it was just so hard to listen to his story. But I’m really grateful for that. So this last year, it’s been just a little bit over a year, and you just barely celebrated his first birthday. What does that grieving process look like for you? Everybody talks about it being a journey, but I’m sure it looks really differently for you than other people. What? How has that been?
Lori Ann 2:13
I think COVID has made it a little bit more difficult in the sense. The night that Owen passed away, I was in a fog. But I had apparently found a therapist online that night, when he passed away, I guess I reached out to somebody that night, knowing that I knew that I would need help and to talk to somebody. That person had gotten back to me, but it took me a month to get back to her.
Lori Ann 2:48
I finally reached out to her. So even having a therapist, as much as I love my therapist, and she’s been amazing. With COVID it’s not in person. It’s either over the phone, or even over a zoom phone call, which I think that’s been fine. We’ve been doing a lot of work. She’s been extremely helpful.
Lori Ann 2:48
I do wish there was some sort of group because I know before COVID you could have group therapy sessions with people.
Winter 2:51
Yeah.
Lori Ann 2:51
You would all meet and then get together and have that support system. I feel like I didn’t get to have that. But I did find different Facebook groups where women have lost their children. I’ve actually made a couple of friends there that I talk to pretty much on a regular basis now. That has been really helpful with the healing process just because it’s helpful to talk to somebody who has gone through, what you’re going through. It’s a very hard thing to understand. It’s something that I would never want anybody to have to understand this type of grief. But it is definitely a very specific type of grieving.
Winter 4:07
I totally agree with you, because we also have a great therapist, and she helps us. She has helped us work through a lot of things. But you are completely right. My little group of women that I have met that have gone through the exact same thing and we meet kind of regularly it’s huge to be able to say, Oh, you know what, it’s like to have lost something so big in your life.
Lori Ann 3:34
Yeah. So yes, and then to understand all the emotions that come with it. One of the things that I have learned in this year is that you need to feel every emotion if you’re angry, it’s okay to be angry or if you’re sad. It’s okay to be sad. That’s been a little tough for me, in the beginning, because I feel like I’m one of those 10s of people that when something happens, I go through it and I handle it. And then it’s like, okay, move on.
Lori Ann 4:42
Obviously this is not something that you can just, you know, kind of work through and then move on like this has been, it’s pretty much I feel like learning how to live your life with this emptiness, or this pain almost every day. I mean, I feel like my husband has been my biggest supporter. I think our communication has been key through all of this, and learning the different grieving stages, because people grieve differently at different times.
Lori Ann 5:59
My husband and I have always been on different friends, parts of our grieving, but my therapist has helped us understand how everybody grieves differently and what it looks like for me to grieve. Then what it looks like for him to grieve. It’s learning how for each of us to learn to communicate with each other, where we’re at. We do that when we literally check in every night together.
Winter 6:30
What does that look like? Is it a “How are you doing today?” Kind of a thing? Or?
Lori Ann 6:35
Yeah, some days it looks different on different days. Sometimes when I’m feeling really sad, I can’t talk. I shut down a little bit. I think it’s just because I need to process and Matt had to learn okay, that’s how she does it.
Winter 6:56
Yeah.
Lori Ann 6:57
It’s not that I’m trying to shut him out, or not telling him things because I just don’t want to tell him I just need to process things before I can spill it out.
Winter 7:09
Yeah.
Lori Ann 7:10
So it’s like we’ve had to learn that. And that it’s okay. If I can’t tell you, right, the second what’s wrong, it’s okay. Give me a minute. And I’ll get him in it. Then we can come together and we can talk about it.
Winter 7:27
Yeah. How does Matt usually process things that you’ve noticed?
Lori Ann 7:32
He, I feel like has a little bit of a tougher time processing things. He had a rough childhood growing up. He has a lot of PTSD from issues from his past. So it’s very hard, I think, sometimes for him to talk about and to even acknowledge a feeling. He’s working on that. We’re figuring out when I do this, it doesn’t mean I’m angry. It might just mean I’m sad.
Winter 8:09
Yeah, exactly.
Lori Ann 8:11
I think for a while Matt is the type that wants to take care of me, and wants to always make me feel better, or, you know he wants to do something to help me. What we’ve come to realize in this is that there’s not always going to be something you can say or do that’s going to fix how someone is feeling.
Lori Ann 8:36
I can remember one night where I think it really hit us. He was sad that– I actually think it was the day before Owens birthday. He was sad. I was sad. Normally, not that we would argue, but one of us would be rushing around trying to help the other person feel better. But instead, we’re learning to almost be in those moments together. That night, we were both sad. We were both like, this stinks. It’s nothing we can say to each other that is going to fix anything at this moment. We were able to just cry together and be in that moment.
Lori Ann 9:30
I felt such a strong connection with him. Just because we were okay with it. You know what I mean? We weren’t looking to fix the other person. It was like, this stinks. We’re in this together. Nothing we can say can fix this. Let’s just be here with each other in this moment. And then we move forward.
Lori Ann 9:57
I really feel it’s taken us this year to be able to do that. Because I mean, you don’t want your significant other to be in pain, or to feel sad, or you don’t want that. You know, you always have that urge to just fix it for them. For us to know alright, there’s really nothing we can say or do right now. It was just a very strong moment. For us, I feel like where it was okay, we’re crying together, we’re, you know, holding each other, we’re doing what you need to do. It meant a lot, I feel like to both of us that we reached that point where we felt okay with that.
Winter 10:50
I feel like that’s a huge step in a relationship to just realizing that you can be together in your feelings, whatever those feelings may be, especially in this crazy process. So that’s a lot of that’s really like, a lot of maturity right there in the sense of a relationship in a relationship. So that’s–
Lori Ann 11:08
Yeah.
Winter 11:09
–that’s pretty cool that you guys got to that point, or at that point, right.
Lori Ann 11:13
Yeah.
Winter 11:14
Not saying it’ll be like that every time.
Lori Ann 11:16
Right? But of course, of course, yeah.
Winter 11:17
You’re just hoping things get better, you know, but you can’t ever split
Lori Ann 11:22
In that moment.
Winter 11:23
It was good. We were talking a little bit earlier. I do want to kind of explore this a little bit more, what kind of things do you have? Or have done to kind of remember Owen. I know that you mentioned that you got a tattoo in your birth story. Then also, there’s something right behind you that I want you to talk a little bit more about. Can you tell us all the things that you’ve done to help you remember him on a daily basis? Because I think you’re right LoriAnn is that I don’t think people realize that there are some things that you can do to remember your child by. So can you show us all of those?
Lori Ann 12:09
Yeah, definitely. Um, the first thing I did was get a tattoo, which I know a lot of people do. I don’t even know if we can see it.
Winter 12:19
Yeah, you can kind of see it.
Lori Ann 12:21
Yeah I have, the mom and the son it says “Always on my mind forever in my heart.” Then it’s got his hand and footprint.
Winter 12:34
Oh, just right there. Okay.
Lori Ann 12:36
Yeah. Then it has his date and then it says, “Owen, are you here?” So that’s always here because then I have my dog’s footprints. Then I love turtles, so it’s got turtles.
Lori Ann 12:51
So it’s an entire sleeve?
Lori Ann 12:53
The whole sleeve is done there. Then another thing that I always have is my necklace that has his ashes in it. I wear this all day every day besides when I take a shower, but this is always– I always feel comfort knowing that he’s with me in this sense.
Winter 13:17
LoriAnn is that one where you can put some ashes into it and it kind of has a lid and it screws down, or is it one that was kind of encased into it?
Lori Ann 13:27
No, this is one where it’s in a kind of see there’s a tube.
Winter 13:32
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Lori Ann 13:34
That’s where his ashes are.
Winter 13:36
Gotcha. Okay.
Lori Ann 13:37
Then you have to super glue it just so it cinches on and stays on. So I have that.
Lori Ann 13:47
Then I had his hand and his footprint. I mean he was two pounds so he was very tiny. I had the idea of wanting a necklace of his actual size, hand and footprint. So I took his hand in his footprint to a jeweler. They actually were able to cut out–
Winter 14:19
Look at that!
Lori Ann 14:19
This is the actual size and outline of his hands.
Winter 14:26
They are so tiny.
Lori Ann 14:28
I know the same thing with his footprints.
Winter 14:33
Uh huh.
Lori Ann 14:35
This was his exact size. It has all the details of it of his foot. These are something else that I kind of wear every day too. I find it just really special that this is his size. This is his exact size of hand and footprint. I did get a necklace once of them, they printed his hand and his footprint on it. But I was like, I don’t know I want the actual size.
Winter 15:10
I’m gonna say they were really small, right on the other necklace?
Lori Ann 15:14
Yeah, it was just like, you know, the tiny little, and they just put it on a little necklace, which is fine, that’s okay. But I just find this to me it’s special, because it’s his exact everything.
Winter 15:31
Yeah.
Lori Ann 15:31
It’s just another way of me honoring him and of keeping him with me every day.
Lori Ann 15:40
Then I have my Molly bear. Which they made this awesome bear where they put Owen David on.
Winter 15:54
That’s so cute.
Lori Ann 15:55
Which is so cute. It weighs two pounds, which is how much he weighed. We actually, for a while I struggled with the idea, but I thought people would judge us. If I took this bear places with me, or did things with it. For a long time I couldn’t do that. I can’t take that with us.
Winter 16:26
Yeah.
Lori Ann 16:27
Then I’m like screw it.
Winter 17:20
Yeah.
Lori Ann 17:20
This is helping me heal. This is one of my ways that I want to remember and honor and keep my son alive in memory. If my husband and I go on hikes, we put the bear in the backpack. Then if we’re at a special spot, then we’ll take it out and we’ll take some pictures with the bear.
Lori Ann 17:20
On his birthday, we actually went to New York City. We went to a whole bunch of different places. We got pictures of the bear with us.
Winter 17:20
All over the place, right?
Lori Ann 17:20
Yeah, his all different locations and on holidays actually. I thought my family was gonna think I was crazy. I brought– because I had text my parents before a holiday and I said, “I’m bringing the bear. I don’t care if any of you think I’m crazy. It’s helping me keep his memory alive. He’s just always with us.”
Lori Ann 17:20
When I went to my parents house, my mom actually took out this little rocking chair. It was this little one. It was apparently her great grandma’s chair, a doll chair from years and years ago. But she had went and pulled it out and said, “I think this would be perfect for Owen’s bear. We can just you know, put it you know where everybody else is. Then you know, the bear can sit there and then he’s still with us during the holidays.” And I was yeah. Yeah, that’s perfect.
Winter 15:49
That’s awesome.
Lori Ann 18:31
You don’t think I’m crazy?
Winter 18:33
Well, I also think that there’s something to be said that you kind of gave him like, I’m doing this. You kind of gave him a heads up. I’m doing this.
Lori Ann 18:42
Yeah I’m doing this.
Winter 18:43
Yeah. So whether you approve or disapprove and the fact that they embraced it.
Lori Ann 18:48
Yeah.
Winter 18:49
The fact that they embrace it is huge, yeah, and they were able to incorporate that into how you guys were celebrating the holiday. So I think that’s awesome kudos to your mom.
Lori Ann 18:59
Even Matt was like, a little eeehhh about it. Because he’s like we’re gonna bring a bear everywhere with us. Then the one hike, I was like, “Okay, take a picture of me and the bear.” And he was like, “Uh, okay.” But then by the next hike, literally, he has the bear on his back like he’s walking through the woods and people are walking by. He finally understood what it meant to me and that it’s just us honoring him and keeping his memory alive.
Lori Ann 19:45
For his first birthday, we actually did a photo shoot for his birthday and we got this nice cake. We had the pictures with the bear with the cake and we did this whole photoshoot. It actually came out super cute. And I was so happy about it.
Winter 20:05
They are so cute. The pictures are so cute. I will share, I’ll share them. If you get a chance go look at her birth story because they will be in that slideshow.
Lori Ann 20:14
Yeah.
Winter 20:14
So.
Lori Ann 20:15
When I got the pictures back, I felt happy. That’s what I wanted. I feel I’m honoring my son. This is my way of always keeping his memory alive and keeping him a part of our life. That’s so important to me.
Lori Ann 20:39
That’s another reason why I’m so thankful that you are allowing me to share his story.
Winter 20:46
Oh, of course.
Lori Ann 20:48
One of my biggest fears. One of my biggest fears was he’s gonna be forgotten. No one’s gonna remember him or, you know what I mean? That’s a general fear. I don’t, he was here he meant he means something. But even if he’s not here anymore, and he made impacts on people’s lives, I just don’t want that to be forgotten.
Lori Ann 21:18
Thank you so much for letting me share his story. This alone is helping me heal. Just listening to other people’s stories, too, has helped me heal in so many ways. I’m just so thankful that you guys are doing this. It means so much to me. And I’m sure many, many other people.
Winter 21:46
Oh, you’re welcome. This is a space where it’s to honor our son too. So that’s exactly the reason why, you said, we did not want anybody to forget our son, just like you don’t want to forget your own and have anybody forget him, you know. So thanks for saying that. That’s really kind of you.
Lori Ann 22:07
Yeah.
Winter 22:08
Thank you for sharing all of those fun things that you’ve done. I think that’s so great. We all have different ways of doing it. I think I’m getting more ideas. Sometimes it’s really nice to say “Oh, I want to do it that way.” I think that’s pretty neat.
Winter 22:21
So this last year has been obviously really tough. I’m sure that after you had mentioned that after you had come home, you had an emergency C-Section, which obviously is very hard on the body. Then you’re also mourning the loss of Owen. Thankfully you didn’t have to go back to work. Hashtag silver lining of COVID. Right?
Lori Ann 22:43
Yeah.
Winter 22:43
I mean, but how was the first couple of months? Was there anything that you guys did in those first, that really raw, really terrible time? It’s just so so hard those first couple of months. Did anything? Was there anything that you did to help? Or was there anything that really kind of stuck out to you during those first couple of months?
Lori Ann 23:06
I feel like every day, something popped up that was so difficult. I have not birthed another child. So this was my first time. I can remember sitting on the couch and I started lactating. I just did not even no one even mentioned that. I didn’t even I didn’t even think about that.
Winter 23:38
No, no, no, nobody told you? Oh, it’s the worst.
Lori Ann 23:44
Nobody told me that. I was sitting on the couch. That was one of the roughest times and honestly, I don’t know what I would have done without my husband. He was grieving. Oh, and also that at that time, but he still found it in him to take care of me every step of the way. I mean, helped me shower. Because I know a C-Section that’s painful.
Lori Ann 24:20
But I was still in that shock stage like this happened. I think I mentioned before that I suffer from anxiety and depression already. Before any of this, I was frozen and numb and was just so lost. He picked me up when I was so down and I still to this day I don’t know how he did it. You know what I mean.
Winter 24:55
Yeah.
Lori Ann 24:55
He just did so much for me. I’m just so thankful that he did everything. He literally helped me out physically, mentally. I’m thankful that this brought us closer together. Because I have heard not such good stories, you know, when couples don’t make it through a tragedy like this. I could see how that could happen, because it’s not easy, and you need to work at it. You need to communicate, and not say that we’re perfect ever, because that’s not true. But I just have learned from those first couple of months we needed each other.
Lori Ann 25:45
We were there for each other. I know that sounds cliche, or kinda lame or whatever. But honestly, because even with COVID we weren’t seeing people. Well, yeah, I mean we were unsure everybody was so unsure of this thing, and people were afraid to see their family. Not going out, and everybody was in quarantine.
Lori Ann 26:14
I have amazing friends that reached out every single day, or would send flowers, gifts and cards to me. Check in on me every single day. I just learned that you just need to have people that you can lean on during those times. The people that understand when you’re angry. That’s okay.
Winter 26:46
Those are good friends when they know.
Lori Ann 26:48
Yeah and it was tough. Because my best friend of 12 years, when I found out I was pregnant, she got pregnant. She was like let’s raise our babies together. She thankfully was fine. Her baby was born and he is growing. He’s so perfect and adorable and amazing. Despite me losing my son, she is still always there for me.
Lori Ann 27:19
Then in the fact of what do you need from me? I don’t want to upset you. I want to make sure that I’m that. Communication and being able to tell people what you need in the moment is so key. It was what I found helpful between my relationship with my husband, my friends, and my parents. It’s not always easy, trust me, because that’s one of the things I work on with my therapist all the time. How to tell people what I need in the moment.
Lori Ann 27:54
But having those people that truly care and want to know how to help you. It’s just, I don’t know what I would do without any of them. I definitely have a very, very strong support system. That is definitely what I learned in those first couple of months that you need to have those people.
Winter 28:16
Yeah, for sure. I want to point out something that you said that was so so good. Your best friend who had a baby the same time you I mean, right. She’s pregnant the same time you guys would have.
Lori Ann 28:30
She was like a month behind me.
Winter 28:32
Yeah. So the fact that she asked you specifically, what do you need from me? And like, that just says a lot too. Because some people can just kind of be like, I want to help you and do everything. She was kind of waiting for your cue of like, I need you now or I don’t need to see you right now. Because I personally think it would have been difficult. For me anyway, if I was kind of doing that same track with a friend. Then I’m like, I didn’t have a baby. Now you’re pregnant and I don’t want to see you. You know what I’m saying like that, that would have been hard. But the fact that she was she said Where do you need me to be? What do you need me to do?
Lori Ann 29:09
Yeah, or like, what do you need me to not complain about? Or what do you need me to do? She’s just been amazing through it all. She still talks about Owen too though. I mean obviously we had so many plans of what we wanted to do. She also had a boy also, so it was you know we’re gonna raise two boys together. We’ve been best friends for years. There were just so many plans and now those plans were ripped away. Even the simple ones.
Lori Ann 29:48
If I post something I always post like a purple our blue heart next to Owen and the one day she even just like said to me like I just want you to know that I hope, you know, when I post pictures of my son, I post a green heart, because I associate the blue heart with Owen. Owen is the blue heart. I don’t want to take that from Owen, just like things like that, that’s just so thoughtful, and amazing. Definitely need more people like that.
Lori Ann 30:27
I mean sometimes people try to help and they don’t mean any harm by the things they say. But sometimes it can be painful. But again, there’s no right or wrong thing to say. It’s such a heavy topic.
Winter 30:47
Yeah.
Lori Ann 30:48
I feel as long as it’s being talked about, and people are being open, and people don’t have to feel ashamed of hiding anything, or just with this bear. I literally was almost feeling ashamed that I was going like, I have five outfits for this bear. You know what I mean? At first, I was like, I’m crazy. There’s something wrong with me. But then you know what, it’s helping me heal whatever.
Winter 31:19
I was gonna say. That’s the nurturing part of you. Right? I mean, you’re trying to nurture something that you can’t.
Lori Ann 31:25
Yeah.
Winter 31:26
Yeah. So I think that is really, that’s really cool of your best friend. That is really, your support system sounds amazing.
Lori Ann 31:36
Yes.
Winter 31:36
Sounds like you have had people surrounding you, which is awesome, especially in this weird time. We lost two and a half years ago and that was hard. But I can’t imagine not having all that physical support, like having actually having people come to the hospital and visit us and, and meeting meaning our son. I’m glad your parents got to meet Owen.
Lori Ann 31:59
Yes, definitely. Because it was just two days after he was born, they quit having any visitors allowed at all.
Winter 32:09
Yeah.
Lori Ann 32:09
I’m glad that my parents were at least able to be there.
Winter 32:14
Yeah.
Lori Ann 32:14
To meet him.
Winter 32:16
You mentioned that you had a therapist, you have a therapist, and you apparently contacted this therapist at the hospital and didn’t remember it. How has that been working through with the therapist? Is that something that has been helpful for you?
Lori Ann 32:34
I think my therapist has helped me a lot. Sometimes I feel it’s just 45 minutes of me talking. That’s what I might need to vent.
Winter 32:50
Yeah.
Lori Ann 32:51
She also allows us to do a family session. So, Matt’s allowed to join in sometimes into the session. I think that helps too, she’s just helped me in such a way of understanding grief, and understanding that it’s not so clear cut. It literally comes in waves. When people say grief comes in waves. I fully understand that concept now. You know, you’re like Oh, I’m okay. Yeah. And then it’s you see you as a toy, a baby toy. And it could be you’re drowning now and it could come out of nowhere. I’ve walked past that same toy for the past week, and nothing happened. But then who knows grief can hit you at any point at any time.
Lori Ann 33:59
I feel like you’re learning to ride though it was like a ride. And I’ve learned the hard way to do that. I used to just build up in me, all my emotions. Instead of saying, if I was in the store, and I was feeling sad. I would just let it build up. Then maybe later something happened, I was mad. I would just keep it in. I would be tipped over by my stress or whatever. I would explode with anxiety, anger and all these different emotions. This past year I’ve been really working on trying to ride that wave. If I’m in the store and I’m feeling sad about something. I’m not gonna lie, I have cried in the middle of a store and whatever.
Lori Ann 34:58
That’s another thing. I’ve learned whatever, those people can judge me all they want, but there’s no way to survive unless you learn to handle those feelings that you have in the moment.
Winter 35:14
Yeah, I like what you said, riding the wave, right?
Lori Ann 35:18
Yes, they are, you’ll be able to ride it.
Winter 35:20
Yeah, because they ebb and flow. They peak and they trough. Yeah, there’s gonna be times when you are not just sad, but you could actually be happy.
Lori Ann 35:30
Yeah.
Winter 35:31
You can have good memories of your son, or feel really sad. I think it’s just really good emotional intelligence that actually to do that, it’s hard for a lot of people to ride the wave like you said.
Lori Ann 35:43
It’s definitely not easy. Obviously, there are certain situations where you’re not really going to be able to. Like at work, if you’re feeling a certain way, you might not necessarily be able to ride that out at work. I’m extremely grateful because I work with a small group of people. They all know everything that I’ve been through. So if I need a moment, if I’m feeling some sort of way, I just say to them I need a moment. They’re like, I got it, go for a short walk, take it a little break. They allow me to do that. I’m definitely very grateful for that. Because I don’t know if everybody’s job would be, you know what I mean? If everybody’s job could allow that to happen.
Winter 36:41
Right. And also, just the kind of it sounds like they care about you to let you do that, you know?
Lori Ann 36:47
Yeah, definitely. And I’m very grateful for that.
Winter 36:52
That’s awesome.
Lori Ann 36:54
Yeah.
Winter 36:54
Lori Ann, so I know that you mentioned this earlier of like, you know, there’s not really any one right thing or wrong thing to say in this situation. I think I would agree with you on that. Because I think it just depends on the person, right? I mean, it’s really tricky. And also, depending how you feel that day, or even in that minute,.
Lori Ann 37:14
One hundred percent.
Winter 37:16
Is there. I’m wondering, but was there anything that somebody said to you that really impacted you, or was helpful to you?
Lori Ann 37:24
One of the positive things would be like what my friend said to me: what do you need in that moment? That would be something, I think, would be a good thing to say to somebody, especially because I know a lot of people don’t mean harm when they say certain things. But I think acknowledging, I don’t know what to say to you, or I don’t want to offend you. Or I don’t really know how to say this. I think those things would be good to say to somebody, instead of just spitting out when’s the next child coming, or are you going to be trying again? Or it’s just being aware of someone’s situation. If somebody got into a motorcycle accident I don’t think I would bombard them with when are you getting back on your bike? Are you gonna get on it now? What’s taking you so long?
Winter 38:31
That’s a really good way of putting it actually, I’ve heard that before.
Lori Ann 38:35
But yeah, if you would probably or hopefully trying? I don’t know if you really want to talk about it, or if you’re ready to talk about it. But do you think you’re gonna ride a motorcycle again? It’s just being aware of how, you know, you’re gonna bring up a topic that might be a little hard to talk about.
Winter 38:55
Yeah.
Lori Ann 38:57
It gives that person a way to answer and a way of “No, I don’t want to talk about that. right now.
Winter 39:02
Yeah.
Lori Ann 39:03
Or thank you for acknowledging that. It could be difficult, or whatever it might be.
Winter 39:12
And it’s interesting, because you mentioned before that you started to become very open about your fertility issues that you guys have had. And so if they read the situation gosh, maybe they’re not ready, and so I’m not gonna ask about that kind of thing. I know it is that what are you gonna have another one that one is you’re just, Hey, I’m still I’m still working on this one. I need to, I need the time to process right.
Lori Ann 39:38
Yeah, just with being open with fertility, I think I was saying before I started being so open about it, because I was so tired of feeling so down on myself. When being asked, why don’t you have kids yet? Where’s your kids? You should have four by now. Where are they? Why don’t you have any? Those types of things where I would just laugh them off and Haha, yeah, yeah, we’re getting there. Well, but meanwhile, we’re struggling to get pregnant and it’s not easy. And it’s not a joke.
Winter 40:20
Yeah.
Lori Ann 40:20
It’s hard. Those things led me to be open about it. So people can maybe think a little differently. Before they start asking questions to people.
Winter 40:34
Yeah. Lee, my husband, is notorious for making people feel super uncomfortable when they ask him questions about if we’re gonna have kids or whatever. He’s, he just makes him super uncomfortable. I think it is kind of a personal question when you ask that. So, because you don’t know what people are going through.
Lori Ann 40:53
Yeah.
Winter 40:54
You just never know what they’re going through.
Lori Ann 40:55
Yeah. That’s funny that you said that. Somebody made some kind of comment about it, it was a stranger. They’re, Oh, you guys are such a cute married couple, you gotta have kids by now and I’m like our son died. My husband said you can’t just say that. Well, yes I can. Our son died.
Winter 41:27
It’s the truth.
Lori Ann 41:28
He asked and that’s the truth. It’s not my fault that now he has no idea what to say. So, I might be a little bit too straight forward sometimes.
Winter 41:45
It’s fine. Well, it hopefully will make him pause, that guy pauses the next time he wants to ask.
Lori Ann 41:55
Yeah, exactly.
Winter 41:58
That’s kind of a little bit funny. It’s the truth, right? Well, it’s totally the truth. I know that you guys had a photoshoot, you made it. You actually had a special cake made for Owen’s first birthday, which was just a couple of weeks ago. I think that’s awesome. Are there any other kinds of things that you guys have done for the holidays? Because I mean, you guys have basically been through an entire year of holidays? Did you do anything special or anything that you really that you’d to share with anybody that is maybe going through the same thing.
Lori Ann 42:34
For Christmas I actually made it because we hang stockings, and we have two dogs. So we’ve always had our Matt, Lori Ann, Sadie, Ellie stockings. And I was really looking forward to having Christmas, you know, this year with Owen and I was super bummed about it. Then I’m like you know I’m making him a stocking and I did. I made him this cute stocking, but I added angel wings to it. I did that for us to keep his memory alive or to honor him again, still.
Lori Ann 43:18
I’m still trying to find ways to honor him. And to just continue to do that. Then again, any holiday, we do just have the bear, you know, and it sits in the special chair.
Winter 43:35
Yeah.
Lori Ann 43:36
For his birthday, we had the photo shoot, the birthday cake, and we had some family over. It was a good time. I didn’t want it to be sad. I wanted it to be where our family got together. Everybody hung out, we actually sang Happy Birthday to him. So that was nice. Yeah, I mean, we’re still trying to figure out a bunch of different things, but so far, those are the things that have helped us.
Winter 44:08
That’s great. I think those are great little traditions and things that you’re trying to do to incorporate him.
Lori Ann 44:13
Yeah.
Winter 44:14
Lori Ann Thank you so much for coming on the podcast I actually do on this episode. I am wondering if you have any last advice or tips that you would give to a lost parent or even those who are supporting a lost parent?
Lori Ann 44:28
Um, well, if you’re a lost parent, my main advice would be, do what’s best for you. You need to take time for yourself as a lost parent. If you’re not ready to go back to work, don’t rush to go back to work, don’t let anyone try and pressure you. Tell you that it’s been four months and you need to go back. No, you’ll know when you’re ready to go back to work. Or don’t put so many people’s pictures up on the wall of them they’re not here anymore. No, if you want to put those pictures on the wall, put the pictures on the wall.
Lori Ann 45:09
People don’t understand if they haven’t been through it, everybody grieves differently. Everybody has different needs and wants. Just do what you want and what you need to do to help you move forward, not move on. Because I hate that saying.
Winter 45:27
Yeah.
Lori Ann 45:27
We’re not moving on, we are moving forward. If you’re helping somebody that’s grieving a child, be patient, and understanding. Listen, and don’t ask, how are you and expect good. I’m great. Or if you’re gonna ask how are you really mean it. Really wonder how somebody is feeling and just be there for somebody. For whatever they may need at that time. Because one day one thing might be right, and then the next step might be wrong. So communication is key.
Lori Ann 46:16
Yes, we are fickle beings.
Lori Ann 46:18
Oh yes.
Winter 46:21
That was some great advice for both parties. Lori Ann, thank you so much. This has been an honor to talk to you and hopefully honor Owen as well and his memory. I thank you for your advice. It was great talking to you. It’s just been so fun.
Lori Ann 46:36
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai